Trayvon Martin and the "Hispanic" Race
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Pardon me, Eduardo, I'm not a bit confused about "what to do with Latinos" - or South Asians or North Asians or African Chinese or Korean Native Americans or Travellers or blacks, browns, reds, yellows, ochres, blues, pinks, whites, and all the other imaginable colors. We're all human beings. Forget the silly labels and the imaginary colors. We obsess on the worst, most niggling little things, making ourselves small, smaller, smallest in the process.
I think it is the surname Zimmerman that throws people off. I live in the Bronx, where just about everybody is Latino. I had a colleague from work (at a Bronx neighborhood group), his name is very Irish - something like Mike O'Reilly. I had been hanging out with my friend for several years before I found out -surname notwithstanding- that he was almost entirely Puerto Rican ( I complimented him on how well he spoke Spanish- we both then realized I didn't know he was PR). The kicker is my friend is NOT a "white Hispanic". If he were a stranger on the street, I would have immediately pegged him as a Latino. But because, I was hanging around with an O'Reilly, I just assumed he was white, all evidence to the contrary.I think it's good so many people don't fit into boxes any more.
Thanks for this thoughtful post. I agree that "the resilience of the black-white racial paradigm in our culture" is one of the most interesting aspects of this story. (It's not unlike the decades-long social conversation about the "Celtic race" in the late 19th and early 20th centuries---and for many of the same reasons.)I'm not sure where this thread will go, so let me go ahead and toss in a link to the invaluable Jay Smooth on how to have the inevitable "that sounded racist conversation". http://youtu.be/b0Ti-gkJiXcKeep the focus on "what they did"; not on "what they are". (Something Prof. Penalver does admirably well above.)
We can't look at this without factoring in the Florida "Shoot First" law, which apparently allows even aggressors to use deadly force rather then walk away. While "Shoot First" complicates it, I agree that the systemic issue is the big one- the young man's parents are right that if it had been Zimmerman on the ground, and Martin still standing, the police would have made an arrest.
Were all human beings. David Smith,This is inane and dismissive of Eduardo's post. We all know that whites, blacks, and Latinos are human beings. That does not keep people of certain ethnic groups from identifying with those of their own group and being suspicious of, or hostile toward, those of other groups. To say "we're all human beings" is to evade the real and serious issues of race and ethnicity in the United States. Your messages frequently advocate naive or simpleminded approaches, as if other people (especially lawyers) think too much and ought to ignore distinctions and details and deal with simple, broad categories.
I don't claim to have read much about the incident itself. The stories I have seen have focused on two areas: the strained relationship between the police department and the black community (recapped in the NY Times article to which Eduardo provides a link above); and a "stand your ground" law that, as this Christian Science Monitor article explains, "removes any duty by an armed citizen to retreat from danger and allows the use of deadly force if there's a reasonable fear of death or grave harm."http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Justice/2012/0322/Will-Trayvon-Martin-case-... that the essence of this situation does not turn on whether Zimmerman is white, Hispanic or Mestizo; but rather that the African American community in Sanford perceives - apparently with some justification - that the forces of law and order are hostile rather than supportive. In that light, Zimmerman's position as neighborhood watch captain (?), and the role of the Stand Your Ground law in shielding Zimmerman from prosecution, may be more germane. Perhaps the key racial angle regarding Zimmerman himself is that he is not black?
I think this is the 'angle du jour. The fact is that Mr. Martin was a Black youth, killed by someone who is not Black, and is now tied up in a justice system that has historically and systematically discriminated against Blacks. Mr. Zimmerman may have been any other race or color, and may have himself been subject to discrimination, but you cannot separate this case from Black racism that has such deep roots in this country, and most especially in the South.
I read this sad incident much the same way my friend Jim Pauwels does above.But ...As Latinos become a growing segment of the population, it might behoove us generally to understand how they view racial and ethnic identity because, as Eduardo points out, it does add layers to the black/white memes Americans are used to seeing.I recommend Junot Diaz's "The Brief and Woundrous Life of Oscar Wao." Diaz comes from the Dominican Republic, where the population has Indian, Spanish and Hatian roots. Dominicanos use various terms to denote degrees of color and racial mix--indio, moreno, prieto, etc. Given that Hatians who sometimes worked in the DR were exterminated under Trujillo, those who were darkest were always under suspicion.When Diaz's characters move to New York, they bring this ethnic identity with them that is neither white nor black. They even argue amongst each other over who is "really" dominicano based on racial characteristics and speech patterns.It's interesting that one of Castro's projects was to stamp out racial prejudices--and he was initially quite successful, bringing many Afro-Cubanos into the party. He welcomed African communists and reached out to American black leaders in the 1960s.Ironically, when Afro-Cubanos resisted total assimilation in order to retain cultural roots by forming groups like the Abacua brotherhood, Castro sicced the cops on them.While colonialism and slavery are a part of the whole history of the Americas, including the U.S., for Hispanics, racial identity is much more subtle and complicated.
Perhaps the key racial angle regarding Zimmerman himself is that he is not black?A very important piece of information is that Zimmerman may have used a racial slur during the 911 call. The sound is not very good, but I can't imagine what he said if it is not what most people claim to hear. I think there is a reasonable suspicion, based on Zimmerman's history of 911 calls, that he is very suspicious of black males. He seems to have been using "racial profiling."Setting all questions of race aside, it is to my mind ridiculous to claim self-defense when Zimmerman was pursuing Trayvon Martin in a frightening manner. It seems to me it would have been self-defense if Trayvon Martin shot Zimmerman. Zimmerman created the situation very unnecessarily, killed an innocent young man, and the police investigation was a joke.
By all accounts, Zimmerman pursued Martin, after he (Zimmerman) had been told by the 911 operator not to. So Zimmerman should not be able to claim self-defense.
The race of the shooter would have been relevant if this had happened in the South 40 years ago. It would have been close enough to white-on-black that there would have been no charges.But now, as a result of what Gov. Jeb Bush called "common sense," race is not a necessary factor in the decision not to make an arrest. Under "Stand Your Ground," the shooter can claim to feel threatened. That's his word against ... um, a dead man's. Hmm. "Common sense" tells us the police and prosecutor would have a hard time proving Zimmerman was NOT feeling threatened. The self-appointed security guard and wannabe law officer surely understood that.
Lots of issues here deserve further (and perhaps seperate) discussion.Beyond the crome, the issue of race is important, especially now, when it is easy to see race creeping into politics andreligion as well (as the Church becomes more brown, as John Allen points out on the Pope's visit to Mexic today, the growing disaffection in the Church of the South with catholicism and the move to pentecostal or secular"" beleifs -issues abou thow the Church understands identity and race and cultural needs.Issues as Eduardo raises about Lationo prejudice against blacks (and vice versa?) and how to confront them.Issues abou tvarious strains of Latinos. do Spaniards still look down on Latin Americans?And, with the increasing number of intermarriages racialy, prejudice still on intermixed couples and their offspring?Prejuduce/bigotry produces lots of ugly things and, unfortunately, we don't like to talk about them or just want to simplify the issues that can run very deep.The case here itself against Zimmerman seems quite strong to me - the underlying isues more broadly should not be swept waya.
On Henry Lewis Gates's show last year, Black in Latin America, the episode about the Dominican Republic was particularly interesting. Gates and his crew were surprised during the filming to learn about the racial notions of the Dominicans -- denial of their African heritage, identification with Spain, etc. The entire episode may be viewed online. At about 5:30 an anthropologist explain the racial attitudes, and at 7:30 he shows Gates the "Sambos" in a shop window.http://www.pbs.org/wnet/black-in-latin-america/featured/haiti-the-domini...
Gerelyn, thanks for that link. I had forgotten about Gates' documentary.
From news reports, the Florida statute only takes away the requirement one walk away- the requirement that we not use lethal force unless its necessary. But doesn't the requirement that the fear of serious harm be a reasonable fear still come into play? At heart, Zimmerman was only afraid of this young man because he was black; racial fear certainly isn't a reasonable fear by any standard. The authors of the legislation insist that Zimmerman as the aggressor isn't covered by it (but some articles were saying that's not certain).
David Nickol 03/23/2012 - 9:49 am subscriber
David, there's often more than people accustomed to complexity in everything are likely to allow for keeping it simple and, at the same time, avoiding angry attacks on people we assume to be our moral and intellectual inferiors.I understand where Eduardo's coming from, and I respect that. But I think the time is long past when most of us should have overcome the dark and bitter obsession with "race" - which, is, by the way, much more a cultural construct than a biological reality. One of the many great gifts America has been receiving from the south recently is a much better and deeper understanding of and appreciation for cultural diversity. Let's profit from that, not simply try to force it into the same tired old hate paradigms. Let them go.
Irene --I'm sorry, but sometimes fear is a wholly automatic response though not a rational one. Feelings are not always rational but they are initially, at least, automatic. If you have been mugged three times by a green guy with pink polka-dots across his forehead, the next time you see a green guy with pink polka dots across his forehead you'll be automatically afraid of him. If you live in a neighborhood where at three a.m. in the morning white pedestrians have a 75% chance of being mugged by a black youth, then if you see a black youth approaching you, he will automatically make you apprehensive. No, it isn't fair, but that is how our animality works. To say those feelings aren't real over-simplifies such situations and blames some people for feelings they cannot avoid feeling. Yes, such feelings must be controlled, but they are automatic, and when the odds are 75% that you're going to be mugged, I wouldn't call them irrational.I used to work in a public library in a slum. I figured that people who come to libraries are not looking for trouble, so I wasn't afraid. But one afternoon a group of black youths who looked the part of trouble makers (leather jackets, fully-studded, Afro hair-cuts, fast-walking, very muscular, grim expressions on their faces) came barreling into the library. I was, frankly, apprehensive. The leader came up to me and asked, "Miss, do you have any books on chess?" Well, that ended my fear. The little library had a number of books on the subject, and I learned that chess is quite a popular game for black men in the New Orleans slums. I had known that checkers was popular, but chess is also. Let that be a lesson to everyone.
Lets profit from that, not simply try to force it into the same tired old hate paradigms. Let them go.David Smith,Right on the front page of the New York Times today is a story that begins:
Taking On Police Tactic, Critics Hit Racial DivideA group of black and Latino lawmakers, fed up over the frequency with which New York City police officers are stopping and frisking minority men, are seeking laws to curb the practice.
Until the police and others (like neighborhood-watch volunteers) stop assuming blacks and Latinos who are walking along the street minding their own business are "suspicious," I am afraid we have to continue to think about race and ethnicity. If we could all put such divisions out of our minds at exactly the same moment and not look back, then your advice would be helpful. But not until then. If this is a case of racial bias, and it looks very much like it is, then pretending that it's not is a very bad course of action. It looks like not only the shooter but also the police valued the life of Trayvon Martin less than that of a white man's. When that stops happening, then we can put matters of race and ethnicity behind us. But pretending to do so now is just looking the other way and letting racism and injustice continue.
Irene: I also read the comments made by the sponsors of the legislation. Their understanding of the law is that Zimmerman gave up all claim to protection under the law when he pursued Martin after the 911-operator told him (Zimmerman) not to.
Ann- But there's a distinction between genuine and reasonable. Zimmerman may have been genuinely afraid of Martin (or not- he might just be asserting that as an excuse), but assuming he was, if the fear wasn't reasonable, it shouldn't get him off. Most of us would not have been afraid of Martin (and if we were, would we have pursued and confronted him?) An innocent person was killed, because his killer was possibly frightened by the color of his skin; Zimmerman really needs to be held accountable.Also, the aggressor thing is really problematic. So if I want to kill someone in Florida and get away with it, I just need to punch him in the face, hope he punches me back and then shoot him? Unless, of course, after I punch him, he shoots me first, claiming he did it in self-defense. What a barbaric law.
Thomas: I read that, too. It just seems an impossible situation where a person could provoke a fight with an unarmed person , then shoot him and successfully claim self-defense.
Irene: You understand what the furor is about.
I always find the labels "Hispanic" and "Latino to be interesting. Most of the Spanish-speaking folks I know (in CA and Chile anyway) tend to use, and therefore seem to prefer Latino, while frequently, non-Spanish speakers, especially in the government it seems, tend to prefer the term Hispanic. On government forms I have even seen the term Nonhispanic White listed for race; whew that is a mouthful!Does anyone know more about this? It seems both terms would mean the same thing, but they probably dont.Thanks -
I should add that I tend to not like group-identity politics; that when thinking about American culture, I prefer the "melting pot" notion to the "salad bowl" idea. In the USA, politics is messy enough with allowing ourselves to become tribal or to Balkanize.
" most of us should have overcome the dark and bitter obsession with race "Tell that to groups of people who have a very vivid experience of being singled out (DWB, for a start) for particular scrutiny simply because of their being what (not who) they are.Tell that to these people and their supporters in their blatant or "nudge, nudge, wink, wink" resistance to our current President: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/03/15/racist-anti-obama-sticker_n_134... is no doubt in my mind that the white males (of which I am one) in this country harbor a deep-seated fear of their continuing loss of political power and control with the increase in numbers of non-whites who are rising in political, corporate and economic power in the US. And I strongly believe that within certain segments of this society, fear of the sexual prowess (as ludicrous as that may be) of black men remains a strong fear: http://books.google.com/books?id=VNoDAAAAMBAJ&pg=PA114&lpg=PA114&dq=fear...
If Trayvon Martin had somehow overcome Zimmerman and harmed him in the fight, would HIS "Stand Your Ground" rights based on HIS fear of physical violence have been as respected by the police as Zimmerman's?
Regarding Eduardo's post - the difficulty of fitting this situation into the pre-existing racial template: I've heard somewhere that journalism schools really do teach common templates for reporting stories. Could that be part of what may be the forcing-square-peg-into-round-hole that is going on here?
Jimmy Mac: I understand the point that you are making in your comment @5:56.However, by all accounts, Trayvon Martin was not armed.So you are asking us to imagine a very different series of events.As I say, I understand the point you want to make. But I think we should stick with the series of events inasmuch as we know them. The fact that Martin was unarmed should be kept in mind when we consider Zimmerman's statement that he was afraid. Was Zimmerman afraid that Martin had a gun and would shoot him? If so, did Zimmerman have any reason to think that Martin had a gun?
@Jim Pauwels (3/23, 5:56 pm) What is the "square-peg-into-round-hole" that you see going on here?
I'm guessing (Jim can clarify, of course) that square-peg-into-round-hole refers to the fact that this story has been played as a black v. white story when, as Eduardo notes, the it isn't that simple.Jim's notions about J-school instruction, however, do not tally with my own experience as a J-school instructor.Students are (or at least used to be) taught to look for the news values of timeliness, impact, magnitude, conflict, oddity, proximity, and prominence, and are given several formulae for organizing that info (the inverted pyramid, for example).It's possible that the facts of the story initially lent themselves to racial conflict at first, but as more facts come to light and the story continues to develop, I see subsequent stories focusing on other news values such as impact (how does the "stand your ground" law affect citizens; how should neighborhood watch groups operate responsibily), proximity (does your state have a "stand your ground" law), and magnitude (do we have a national problem with vigilantism).In response to President Obama's comments that if he had a son, he would look like Trayvon, the boy's parents noted that they felt that ANY parent of a teenager walking around after dark should be able to identify with their concerns and grief. In addition, leaders of various ethnicities and religions have expressed concern about how the shooting could occur and no one be held accountable.This may go some way toward moving the story away from the original conflict between black and white story originally reported.
Jimmy Mac. What an interesting question! What if Zimmerman had been beaten to death. Stand your ground defense?
Eduardo,Perhaps Zimmerman's mother is not mestizo or Indian. Being Peruvian is not enough to determine color. About 50% of Peru is mestizo, and about 20% white. His mother could very well be white. She could also be Indian. Moreover, as a student of Latin American culture I find the American classification of latino to be perilous at best. I recognize that you said: "His photo (at least to me) reveals a man who looks mestizo."
Irene ==If the fear wasn't reasonable AND HE KNEW IT WAS UNREASONABLE it shouldn't get him off. There's the rub. Such fears usually aren't reasonable, but there they are -- automatically. So what should one do? Well, IF (notice the if) we have learned that the fears are unreasonable -- and, yes, we have to relearnour estimates of "them" --we must control ourselves, knowing that the other person is really not a threat and that our fears are indeed unreasonable. (Did Zimmerman know his fears were unreasonable? Doesn't look like it to me. But we really don't know enough to be sure, do we?)Unforturnalely, it's not easy to overcome the conditioning of a lifetime or of one or a few terrible experiences. That's the other side o such confrontations, and, yes, it it an other side. No, it's not fair to "them", but it also isn't fair that the "us" -- it isn't fair that we have been conditioned to be suspicious and hateful either. This is why ethnic groups who are the butt of such prejudice are fight when they protest that their people on TV are always presented as violent or whatever. Such constant portrayals reinforce peoples aggressive expectations. It's why all those words expressing negative ethnic steriotypes need to be erased from the English language. Their influence is abominable -- and also automatic, whether owe want them to be or not..
Thomas --The psychologists know very well that if 10 people see an accident the police will get 10 somewhat different verisons of what happened. The degree to which human nature forces us to fill in images is really amazing. Depending on expectations, we distort our sensory data, leave out data, and even add data that isn't there at all. For instance, if you expect a kid to mug you you might actually add a gun to the image you're experiencing, or add a gun to your memory of him. In fact, i've even read that some prosecutors now realize that "eye-witness accounts" are not nearly so valuable as they used to think and some prosecutors are trying to have the laws reflect that. Just look at the number of men who were convicted of rape by the accounts of their victims, but who have been exonerated by DNA evidence.We see the world with jaundiced eyes, and in many, many cases we do so quite honestly.
Ann. Your last two postings make no sense to me given the circumstances as we understand them. Mr Zimmerman was the aggressor. He followed and therefore threatened Mr Martin. Rationalize it any way you want...Zimmerman accosted the unarmed Martin and shot him to death.
"If the fear wasnt reasonable AND HE KNEW IT WAS UNREASONABLE it shouldnt get him off. Theres the rub. Such fears usually arent reasonable, but there they are automatically."Ann, here is what strikes me about this law: how is a police officer, or a prosecutor, or a judge or a jury, supposed to sort out whether a person's fear is reasonable or not? Reasonable according to whom? To the shooter? Isn't there usually some more objective standard than a person's state of mind to determine innocence or guilt?
"Isnt there usually some more objective standard than a persons state of mind to determine innocence or guilt?"Interesting question and my guess it's going to be a vexed one, just as the insanity or mental incompetence plea can sometimes seem to let people beat a rap.Perhaps another way to look at the law is that it says "stand" your ground. The 911 calls indicate that Zimmerman didn't just stand, but actively pursued Trayvon, as jbruns has pointed out. It's one thing to stand in the door of your home and prevent someone from coming in with lethal force, which is the point Adam Winkler makes in the NYT editorial:
Sorry, hit submit instead of pasting the link to Adam Winkler's piece: http://www.nytimes.com/roomfordebate/2012/03/21/do-stand-your-ground-law...
jbruns --I was talking about Zimmerman's possible subjective experience. If he perceived the boy as armed, he was perhaps justified in being aggressive (though giving chase certainly certainly doesn't help his case). Not that the body did have a gun. But it is quite possible that Z. perceived him as having one. He was wrong of course, but I think we still have to try to understand all aspects of such crimes if we ever hope to stop them. People like Zimmerman need to be taught that their fears are largely unfounded, and they need to be convinced that that is so. Otherwise, they will continue to kill innocent people.
JIm P. --I haven't read much about the particulars of this case, but I think you're right about the problem of extenuating circumstances. Even the law admits that there are circumstances which *lessen the guit* but do not eliminate the guilt entirely. The problem then is how to measure a totally subjective occurence, in this case, the fear of the shooter. I don't think there is anything like a sure way. That's why ew have such large juries and they have to gree unanimously. And they do make mistakes. They let some guilty go free, and they condemn some innocents.
David Nickol 03/23/2012 - 3:47 pm subscriber
David, it's not a matter of pretending to look the other way but of not fanning the flames. The media do the latter and people with an axe to grind often join in, and then point to the resulting bonfire as evidence that things are as bad as they ever were.It's a matter of balance. One doesn't wear a blindfold and one doesn't carry a megaphone.
Geraldo has been blaming the hoodie, which is very bizarre. This poor kid gets killed minding his own business and so many people are trying to make it something other than a flat-out murder. I feel really sorry for his mother and father.
@Jean Raber (3/23, 8:06 pm) Thanks for the reply. I guess the "square-peg-in-a-square-hole" story that I see here is: "A young black man gets killed (by vigilante) for being...a young black man." And, not "wearing a blindfold" as David Smith phrased it (3/23, 2:00 am), any number of similar cases come to mind---most prominently, Emmett Till in 1955. And, from what I've seen, Trayvon Martin's parents (like Mamie Carthan, Till's mother), have acted as I think most parents hope they would act in such a situation---with great dignity, compassion, restraint and determination.
Ann Olivier: You state that you have not read much about the particulars of the case, but this has not stopped you from opining about several points regarding the case. Shame on you for opining so often about a case you admit that you have not read much about! To catch up on the case, I would urge you to read at least the Wikipedia entry about the case.
Here are the actual police reports and 911 calls -- without all of the MSM filtering. Note that Zimmerman was, in fact, taken into custody (arrested) and the initial police report is for suspected negligent homicide / manslaughter. The officer who first encountered Zimmerman and took him into custody reports, "his back appeared to be wet and was covered in grass, as if he had been laying on his back on the ground. Zimmerman was also bleeding from the nose and back of his head. . . . I over heard him state 'I was yelling for someone to help me, but no one would help me.'" Is that consistent with Zimmerman's claims that he was attacked while returning to his vehicle?Also, other police reports indicate that this neighborhood had been the subject of various burglaries in the past few months.Regardless of all this though, one place that this incident should not be tried is in the media -- just as with the Johnson matter, none of us were there, none of us know all the facts, and it is not our place to make judgments against people one way or the other.
Thomas Farrell --I've given my opinion about one possible factor in the case that can neither be proven nor disproven -- and that's my point. The degree of fear that Zimmerman (and other murderrers0 felt and the effect on his perception of the situation is something we can never be sure of. You don't need to know a lot of particulars to know that.
Bender, I don't see anything about Zimmerman being arrested in the police report--I haven't seen or heard ANYTHING that confirms that. Can you point to what backs up that claim? N.b. Being taken into custody for questioning does not equal being arrested, and it certainly doesn't equal being charged.
Abe is right, butI think it's way too easy to finecomb the particulars of this matter w/o full knowledge.What is clear is that race has been clearly seen by many to be a factor!Of course, every mother(and father) would be deeply hurt by an experience like this and all can relate to across racial lines.Of course, law enforcemen tpeople often operate in very dangerous situations: I know that well here in NM where this week two individuals were killed by police and police kilings often seem to involve high speed chases, gun fire exchange and many in danger....But we know there are quite imperfect individuals in law enforcementand in the Courts of justice. The current Commonweal has a fine book review on the major problems of CJS today, but does not mention these problems go back to the late 60s/early 70s where large urban courts saw an explision of cases and groaned under the weight of moving calendar.We are still plagued by that today with way too many plea bargains, civil settlements (in cases drawn out almost in Dickens like fashion) and poor use of resoucesbut the respurces at hand can be limited and frequently are ,when privated(IMO.)So, yes, we can minimize the role of race in this, but with all the realities, it is still minimization.And, I think, rather than dwelling on the crime and what happened in our partial framings, we would do well not to minimize race and (as per Lent) do better to look at our own prejudices -and we all have them -and see how it may frame our own views/
"we would do well not to minimize race and (as per Lent) do better to look at our own prejudices -and we all have them -and see how it may frame our own views"Bob, I agree, and in fact the circumstances of this case have given me a lot of food for thought and prayer.
Being taken into custody for questioning does not equal being arrestedYes, yes it does. Being arrested does not equal being charged. But, by definition, being taken into custody (a seizure of the person), such that the person is not free to leave, constitutes an "arrest," even if police (for Miranda purposes) like to shy away from that term.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/blogpost/post/sanford-fla-posts-lett... that: Zimmerman provided a statement claiming he acted in self defense, which at the time was supported by physical evidence and testimony, the letter, signed by Sanford City Manager Norton Bonaparte Jr., says. By Florida Statute, law enforcement was PROHIBITED from making an arrest based on the facts and circumstances they had at the time. (Caps are theirs.)
Not only is this disgustingly broad law now found in 24 states the fruits of the NRA lobbying and political interference, but the NRA evidently has also partnered with something of which I had not heard before: ALEC (American Legislative Exchange Council) - http://www.alecexposed.org/wiki/ALEC_Exposed
Our white priest preached to his half black congregation this Sunday that white parents don't have to constantly tell their sons, to watch out, be respectful of authorities, don't push the envelope. As a white father of 5 sons it struck me, yes I never had to warn them of police, half of which in my sons days, were tall Irish Americans like my sons.. no problems for them. I watched the black heads nodding in assent at the pastor's words and empathized with the worry of any black father with 5 sons.
May I ask about this? For whatever reason, I've never been asked to be part of a neighborhood watch - in fact, the possibility of actually taking part in such a group has never entered my head before. My mental image of neighborhood watches is of nice, mostly elderly neighbors keeping any eye out for one another. The possibility that neighborhood watches are armed and ready to shoot had never occurred to me. Do I need to press the reset button on my impressions? Is "neighborhood watch" really just a euphemism for "militia"? A neighborhood watch really has no official legal status, does it?
Jim, that's a good question. When my son was going to school, a convicted sex offender lived in the next block (he has since died of natural causes). Those of us who were home when school let out sat on our porches in all weather. This was a word of mouth thing that just happened because I live in a little dinky town where people talk to each other.Because many mothers were working, most of us watching were elderly people using phones as weapons; Officer Burrhead was stationed at the corner of the block where the offender in question lived.A neighborhood watch patrol might be a very different thing in a gated community, however.
Jim P asked @ 9:28 about Neighborhood Watches.FWIW - and, in this case, apparently not very much:Stratford, FL, Neighborhood Watch Program. http://www.crimewatchofstratford.org/images/Neighborhood_Watch_complete_... ABCs of Neighborhood WatchWatch groups are not vigilantes. They are extra eyes and ears for reporting crime and helping neighbors. Neighborhood Watch helps build pride and serves as a springboard for efforts that address community concerns such as recreation for youth, child care, and affordable housing. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neighborhood_watchNeighborhood watches are not vigilante organizations. When suspecting criminal activities, members are encouraged to contact authorities and not to intervene.
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