Rudy says that whether waterboarding is torture "depends"--not only on what's being done but also, remarkably, who's doing it. John McCain disagrees.

All I can say is that it was used in the Spanish Inquisition, it was used in Pol Potsgenocide in Cambodia, and there are reports that it is being usedagainst Buddhist monks today, Mr. McCain, who spent more than fiveyears in a North Vietnamese prison camp, said in a telephone interview.

Of presidential candidates like Mr. Giuliani, who say that they areunsure whether waterboarding is torture, Mr. McCain said: They shouldknow what it is. It is not a complicated procedure. It is torture.

Rudy's senior military adviser, retired Adm. Robert J. Natter, offered this response:

The highly politicized nature of political campaigns makes that foruma poor arena in which to debate the distinctions between torture anddifferent forms of interrogation, Admiral Natter said. Iswaterboarding torture? I dont know. I was waterboarded as part of mymilitary training, and I would say that it falls into a gray area.

Yes, especially when you know that the person waterboarding you has no intention of killing you.

And what about Rudy's blithe dismissal of sleep deprivation as a form of torture? They talk about sleep deprivation. I mean, on that theory,Im getting tortured running for president of the United States. Thatsplain silly. Thats silly. It seems he doesn't know much about that either.

Update: Andrew Sullivan links to a post on waterboarding by Malcolm Nance, a former master instructor and chief of training at the U.S. Navy Survival, Evasion, Resistance and Escape School (SERE) in San Diego, California. The post is titled "Waterboarding Is Torture."

I know the waterboard personally and intimately. SERE staffwere required undergo the waterboard at its fullest. I was noexception. I have personally led, witnessed and supervisedwaterboarding of hundreds of people. It has been reported that both the Army and Navy SERE schools interrogation manuals were used to form the interrogation techniques used by the US army and the CIA for its terror suspects. What was not mentioned in most articles was that SERE wasdesigned to show how an evil totalitarian, enemy would use torture atthe slightest whim. If this is the case, then waterboarding isunquestionably being used as torture technique.

The carnival-like he-said, she-said of the legality of Enhanced Interrogation Techniqueshas become a form of doublespeak worthy of Catch-22. Having beensubjected to them all, I know these techniques, if in fact they areactually being used, are not dangerous when applied in training forshort periods. However, when performed with even moderate intensityover an extended time on an unsuspecting prisoner it is torture,without doubt. Couple that with waterboarding and the entire medley notonly shock the conscienceas the statute forbids--it would terrify you. Most people can not standto watch a high intensity kinetic interrogation. One has to overcomebasic human decency to endure watching or causing the effects. Thebrutality would force you into a personal moral dilemma betweenhumanity and hatred. It would leave you to question the meaning of whatit is to be an American.

Update 2: In case you don't want to read Nance's entire post, have a look at the section on waterboarding here:

Waterboarding is not a simulation. Unless you havebeen strapped down to the board, have endured the agonizing feeling ofthe water overpowering your gag reflex, and then feel your throat openand allow pint after pint of water to involuntarily fill your lungs,you will not know the meaning of the word.

Waterboarding is a controlled drowning that, in the American model,occurs under the watch of a doctor, a psychologist, an interrogator anda trained strap-in/strap-out team. It does not simulate drowning, asthe lungs are actually filling with water. There is no way to simulatethat. The victim is drowning. How much the victim is to drown dependson the desired result (in the form of answers to questions shouted intothe victims face) and the obstinacy of the subject. A team doctorwatches the quantity of water that is ingested and for thephysiological signs which show when the drowning effect goes frompainful psychological experience, to horrific suffocating punishment tothe final death spiral.

Waterboarding is slow motion suffocation with enough time tocontemplate the inevitability of black out and expiration usually theperson goes into hysterics on the board. For the uninitiated, it ishorrifying to watch and if it goes wrong, it can lead straight toterminal hypoxia. When done right it is controlled death. Its lack ofphysical scarring allows the victim to recover and be threaten with itsuse again and again.

Read the rest of the post right here.