Archbishop Dolan will be the next president of the USCCB. (UPDATED)
This doesn't happen very often. The USCCB just elected as president someone other than the sitting VP. The race went to three ballots, with Dolan finally winning 128 to 111. The first vote had Bishop Kicanas with 104, Dolan with 84, and Archbishop Chaput with 20. In the second ballot, required because Kicanas didn't have enough of a majority, Dolan took the lead by 118 to 111. (Chaput subsequently lost the VP race to Archbishop Kurtz of Louisville.)Did the Catholic Right's cynical campaign to undermine Bishop Kicanas's candidacy succeed?Update: Kicanas just posted the following statement (PDF) to the Diocese of Tucson Web site.
A priests life is all about service service to the People of God, service to the Church and itsmission. I have been honored these past three years with the opportunity to serve our Church,its mission and the People of God as the vice president of the U.S. Conference of CatholicBishops. I have grown in my regard for the staff of the Conference, especially Msgr. DavidMalloy and the senior staff, for the untiring work they do on our behalf.Serving as vice president has been a marvelous experience.I respect the wisdom of my brother bishops in choosing their new president and vicepresident. I greatly appreciated their expressions of thanks to me for my service as vicepresident. Archbishop Timothy Dolan has been a long time friend since our seminary worktogether. I know of his great wit, jovial spirit, keen ability to relate to people in a deeplypersonal way and his exceptional leadership qualities. These will certainly serve theConference well as he begins his term as president.I look forward to continuing to do whatever I can to further the work of the Conference. Ireally look forward to being able to focus on the needs of our Diocese supporting our priests,women and men religious, deacons and lay people in the Diocese of Tucson, whom I havegrown to love deeply.
Update 2: Well, would you look at that? After endorsing Kicanas for USCCB president, the Rainbow Sash Movement just posted a PDF decrying the bishops' rightward lurch. What do you think: was that prepared before or after the election results were in?Update 3: Michael Sean Winters offers these observations at his blog:
There is one other aspect of the story that I alluded to yesterday and which was confirmed for me by several bishops. The attacks on Bishop Kicanas in the last week before the election worked. These attacks focused on Kicanas service as a seminary rector, when he recommended for orders a man who went on to be a child molester. Kicanas had answered the charges at the time and there was nothing to them, but on the eve of the election, when the CNN ticker had an item about Top bishop denies promoting child molester, I knew there was trouble for Kicanas. Survivors groups unwittingly did the bidding of the most conservative bishops by joining in the attacks. If that were not enough, the gay activists in the Rainbow Sash movement sealed Kicanas fate when they endorsed him, a classic case of failing to anticipate the opposition. Still, I had anticipated there might be a sympathy backlash for Kicanas, not least because whatever the bishops intended some on the right now think they possess a hecklers veto over USCCB elections. Throw enough mud at the last minute, and they can stop someone they do not like from winning. They sent text messages to bishops. They called the bishops rooms at the hotel. It was ugly. But, no bishop wanted to return to his diocese and be pummeled with questions about Kicanas treatment of a sexual abuser. There was enough smoke to suggest a fire, and the bishops have no desire to be burned on that score anymore.
I wonder whether Rainbow Sashers knew exactly what they were doing, and are happy to use Kicanas's loss to raise awareness--and money.But what about the rest? Text messages? Phone calls to bishops' hotel rooms? The attacks from conservatives may not have been the only thing that torpedoed his candidacy, but do the bishops who voted against Kicanas because of that smear campaign recognize they just caved in to the swiftboating of a brother bishop--and it could happen to them?
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Very surprising. Such precedents are not overturned easily. I did not think the Tighty-Righties would be able to pull this off.Sometimes you get the bear. Sometimes the bear gets you.
And/or did the bishops decide they didn't want a liberal? In any case, quite an engineering feat. (Is it possible Nancy Pelosi was counting the votes?)
Definitely the man for the job, but how odd?
Congratulations, Archbishop Dolan. Be careful what you wish for!I'm sorry for Bishop Kicanis. He doesn't deserve this. If the bishops didn't want him to be president, they shouldn't have made him vice-president.Archbishop Dolan's record vis a vis the sex-abuse scandals is considered pretty clean, I believe. Is this also a victory, then, for victims and their support network?Is Archbishop Dolan more conservative than Kicanis? Of course, for bishops, the spectrum is not very wide, and so gradations are a little subtle. It may be, as Grant suggested below, that Kicanis is perceived as a "Bernardin guy". If that's the case, then Dolan would be, what, a "Burke guy"?I can't help but think that the US bishops missed an opportunity here. Kicanis' leadership approach and style are very different than someone who is on the cardinal track.
The good news is that Abp. Chaput got only 20 votes on the first ballot. He was the favorite of only one in 12.
Re: Peggy, I suspect Rigali was the hand the sexual-abuse nonsense was the glove.
Sad - even more lost than I thought. Feel like I am ready about the anti-Modernist time period in the late 19th century. History truly does repeat itself.
A classy staement from Bishop Kicanas.Telling, however, that there is no mention of Cardinal George.
The accusations against Kicanas were probably a factor, and probably rightly even if they are flimsy. Cardinal Pell did not become prefect of the Congregation for Bishops because of some lightweight accusations against him, but we are in a time of extreme caution on these matters.Where is Kurtz on the political spectrum? How well has he been vetted?
This From Stephen Schneck (CUA) on Kurtz: From PA. Background looks like hes one of Philly circle. Lots of work on marriage and family issues. MA in social work. Some work with Catholic Charities. Looks like a moderate to me. Perhaps biggest worry now should be how Faithful Citizenship will be rewritten in 2011 given what were to think of this election of Dolan. Steve
Kurtz bio fits in with Grant's Rigali theory
As influential as this blog is, I think it unlikely that any of the bishops used it to decide his vote. That said, I think it's probably a good sign that this was not a perfunctory vote--a robust election is probably best in the long run. On the other hand, since VP Kurtz appears to be a solid choice, I hope next time the vote is perfunctory.I agree the bishop's statement is classy.
I think Mark is right - this blog didn't influence the bishops, but the Rigali theory makes sense to me.Ironically, SNAP had put out a statement urging voting against Kicanas and Dolan; I think it's clear the conservative wing of the bishops ruled, or as Jerry Filteau noted at NCR, the righti s in the ascendancy.Abp. Dolan's election means that everyone will be expected to be on point with whatever comes down from Rome.The future then means more of the same old stuff and more drift.If the Cardinal at Chicago shut down a pastor in Oak Park for raising "why can't we talk about?." any hope of that is gone with the downfall of Kicanas, warts and all.I deeply worry that the spirit of Vince Miller's "Memo to the Bishops" in America will also be met with tokenism; for, I think the "ascendant right" is closely tied to our political right.
Dolan does try to build bridges but it is a good question whether he knows how to do this well. Bernardine did this well yet stood his ground. Which brought some nastiness which fulfills the words of Jesus that you will be hated and persecuted in my name. Dolan is a true follower of Augustine in that all is okay as long as you submit to "the one true, universal church." This was clear with Dorothy Day whom he tries to present as a model of staying with the church and distorts Day's meaning. If someone can seriously parse his words about Day I would like to see it. He forgets that the church is everywhere Jesus is. Not vice versa. So we are in for a ton of mental gymnastics and gyrations.
Bishop Kicanas's statement, especially his "really look forward," shows he's got his priorities in order. I don't think we could always say that about Cardinal George. Mark, not sure what you're saying about your 12:38 statement. Carol McKinley is happy, no doubt. Ditto NCReg. Another pep rally moment for the Catholic Right. Yippee.Interesting that we've gone from small town (Belleville and Spokane) presidents to the Big Time since 2007. Sure validates the careerism promoted by the Congregation of Bishops. Maybe Rome is happy, too.My own sense is that the USCCB wanted the "smart guy" in Cardinal George. Today they went for the "media guy" in Archbishop Dolan. Given his Palm Sunday cheerleading session, I don't know that the New York prelate is as media savvy as he can play to a crowd. Maybe the USCCB is experimenting with style over substance in their public face to the world. Or is this a bone to chew on till the next red hat descends on the Big Apple? Who knows?
I am wondering how Bishop Kicanus will respond to this article found on Lifesitenews, http://www.lifesitenews.com/ldn/2010/nov/10111502.html, and if it is true that "Bishop Kicanus understands that bishops are privately changing their positions because input is bubbling up from the pews of our parishes in support of such issues as gay marriage and pro-choice." The question is, how exactly does one find common ground between The Truth of Love and error, without exchanging an element of Truth with a lie?We can not transform Christ, The Truth of Love transforms us.
SNAP is right wing now?And no mention of the Rainbow Sash endorsement? Do you really think that didn't have an influence?And do you really think that Dolan is far right? Of course he's not. Has he ever denied Communion to a Catholic politician? I'm not sure, but I don't think so. He's decidedly cool on the Latin Mass stuff. Trads don't like him and regularly post the photo of him with a Wisconsin CHeesehead on his head from when he first arrived in Milwaukee. If anyone here had a specific beef against Dolan it would be different, but I'm not hearing it except that he's not thrilled with the New York Times and the wrong people like him.
Robby George is very happy with Dolan's election, and sees it has a sign the bishops are becoming more bully pulpit types who will be more forceful in preaching church teaching on life issues.
I thought Fr. Reese's comment in the NYT was most germane: the two veep candidates were the most conservative, which tells you where the Conference is going.God help the Church in the US as the divide and the drift grow, while Mark and his pals of the Rigali stripe can rejoice all they want!
"The question is, how exactly does one find common ground between The Truth of Love and error, without exchanging an element of Truth with a lie?"Nancy --No, the question is, why do you think that you cannot be mistaken about where and what the Truth is? We must never exchange lies for truth. But the truth about us is that we can be mistaken, even mistaken about where to find the Truth. Has it even occured to you that sometimes you yourself are looking for Truth in the wrong places?
God help those who, despite the Seamless Garment, have created the "common ground" thread.
Nancy, I just think your last comment was deeply offensive to those of us who knew the late Msgr. Murnion nad the work of NPLC.
So, Nancy, do you think Catholics should not establish common ground with atheists and agnostics in order to feed the poor? Hmm. That would not be Christian at all.
Well, the good news for those in the Archdiocese of New York is that as President of the USCCB, Archbishop Dolan will be able to bring home the bacon for us New Yorkers.
Caritas in Veritate requires that when working towards establishing the Common Good, one must not forget that "Man does not live by bread alone but by every Word that comes from The Mouth of God."
Speculation here in Louisville is that Kurtz, a Pennsylvania native, is buckin' for the post of AB of Philadelphia someday. I invite this guy out of our archdiocese: He instructed parishes to use our hard-earned money to install/reinstall kneelers. Let's not forget, too, that he used our family/corporate identity ("Archdiocese of Louisville") to support the bigoted anti-gay marriage measure in Maine. I just don't want our "front door" to hit him on the way out of town someday! O, God, I beseech thee!!!
"Perhaps biggest worry now should be how Faithful Citizenship will be rewritten in 2011"What worry? Is there any doubt that if Faithful Citizenship is rewritten to provide Catholic voters clearer guidelines based on the teaching of the Church, that progressive Catholics will simply ignore it to the extent it does not conform to their political ideology?
"Well, the good news for those in the Archdiocese of New York is that as President of the USCCB, Archbishop Dolan will be able to bring home the bacon for us New Yorkers."That's been the experience in Chicago the last three years: I haven't seen a pothole inside a church since 2006.
"The race went to three ballots, with Dolan finally winning 128 to 111. The first vote had Bishop Kicanas with 104, Dolan with 84, and Archbishop Chaput with 20. In the second ballot, required because Kicanas didnt have enough of a majority, Dolan took the lead by 118 to 111."Here's a little post-election analysis, then:1st ballot: exactly half of the votes went to Kicanis, and the other half went to his two opponents.2nd ballot: The Chaput votes broke for Dolan.Lesson learned: it was all Chaput's doing! :-)
I don't know about fixing potholes, but Dolan does have an awful lot on his plate already. In addition to the general business of running such a large and "visible" diocese, there's the just-launched "Pathways to Excellence" overhaul of the parochial-school system in New York to worry about, and -- I am reminded by Laurie Goldstein's story on the pick -- his participation in the Irish sex-abuse investigation as well. I think I would have wanted to vote for someone with a little less weight on his shoulders.
"I think I would have wanted to vote for someone with a little less weight on his shoulders."And yet this is in keeping with the tradition of Cardinal George: Vox Clara, a few curial departments, his own religious order. Either the bishops compare the weight of the USCCB presidency to a piece of fruit, a plum, say. Or they think little enough of the responsibility of bishop.
Let's not make too much of the "idealogical differences" of these too good bishops. Perhaps the bishops just didn't want to deal with Kicanas' baggage on the sexual abuse issue (whether criticisms were fair or not, and let's remember that Kicanis rejects the recent characterizations).Dolan is very appealing in his own right...and Kicanis was gracious in his post-election comments.Peace...and prayers for all around.
There's a funny picture of Abp Dolan as a power-grabber on http://whispersintheloggia.blogspot.com/
...and besides, I think it is good that they have done away with the model of "automatic election" of the VP. That just seems silly in this day.
I think it more than coincidental that the ecclesiastical right is in ascendancy at the same time that the internal as well as external religious (and political) influence of the US prelates is becoming less and less noticeable. I wonder what it will take for some influential writer (ordained or not) to seriously make the point that this US church is heading for a quiet but nonetheless real schism? That shouldn't be an issue for Europe, because European Catholicism is essentially a hollow shell. Madison's Morlino has something like tschism on his hands in Platteville, WI with St. Mary's parish. They're mad as hell and they aren't going to take it anymore. I'm originally from that part of Wisconsin and it takes a lot for those Catholic people to get worked up about something other than bingo, polka masses and turkey suppers, but once they are -----
If we really want to put this in historical context it is power politics on the part of the bishops. Tertullian said that the blood of the martyrs is the seed of the church. The church stopped thriving after it followed the model of the Roman Empire. It is in fact an empire which persecutes rather than is persecuted. Which means it has lost its way. Augustine tried to justify the straying from the words of Jesus that everyone was now a dry martyr by the life they lead. Not quite. In fact the hierarchy started killing those who disagreed in a reversal persecution. Today the persecuted are those who need health care and families who strruggle to raise their children. Dolan said the bishops are not in crisis. Yet he is stunned how Catholics no longer respect the hierarchy. He even tried using Dorothy Day to get them to return. You are in crisis Timmy. But we continue to pray for you.
The Benedict Bounce.
I can't help but wonder whether or not Rome (I mean the bureaucrats) put pressure on individual bishops to vote one way or another. In fact, I wonder how Roman influence is generally exerted these days -- indirectly or directly. Given contemporary communications systems and human nature, I would expect both.
Ann, Please don't get all "Don Brown" on us with the conspiracy theories...that's just silly. Besides, I doubt that any of these bishops actually wanted to be elected...it is more like a headache than an honor.
Archbishop Dolan is an inspired choice. The Holy Spirit is at work. In these dangerous times when Catholicism is constantly under attack in the secular press, it will be refreshing to have a personable, but forceful, advocate for the Faith.
Jimmy Mack, so sorry that some of the people of Platteville are no longer Catholic and object to the Faith being taught. Bishop Morlino is quite a guy and the folks there are lucky to have him.
In the Bay Area we have rank choice voting to save on run-off costs. Everyone can, but does not have to, vote 1st 2nd 3rd choice. Brings in interesting results.. forms alliances in campaigns.. At the USCCB Kicanas would have won easily.. on this thread his name is the most misspelled one.. how many ballots were thrown out? (-: recount????lawyers???
Didn't the Church once have bishops worthy of higher praise than "quite a guy?"
Felapton, I'm just trying to be hip and modern like the rest of you folks at Commonweal. I could have said "top drawer" but unless you were born in the 1950s you might not recognize that phrase
Didn't bishops once have sycophants who could express themselves coherently?
"Speculation here in Louisville is that Kurtz, a Pennsylvania native, is buckin for the post of AB of Philadelphia someday. I invite this guy out of our archdiocese: He instructed parishes to use our hard-earned money to install/reinstall kneelers. "Please, send him here to Philly. He seems like quite a guy and we'd be happy to have him (when Rigali retires). By the way, what kind of parish doesn't have kneelers?
Some here have wondered what ideological position Kurtz might occupy, or what sort of a mind he has. Let me offer one illustrative ancedote. When he was pastor of a parish in the Diocese of Allentown, he invited me to give a workshop for his liturgical ministers. The next day he phoned to complain that my presentation had not been sufficiently doctrinal. What was wrong? I had referred to the Eucharist as the Bread of Life and the Cup of Salvation.
Angela --I wasn't thinking Dan Brown stuff, just ordinary ambition and political interests groups. Here's a true story for you. A family friend, Fr. joseph Buckley, was head of the Marist Order worldwide and at the time of Vat II was a non-voting member of that august body, and even gave a couple of influential speeches there. So I'm quite sure he had at least a fairly good understanding of the ecclesiastical politics of those days.I once said to him, "I'm sure Pope John didn't want to be pope. He was such a holy, humble man". Well, Fr. Buckley roared with laughter, and kept roaring as if it was one of the most naive things he had ever heard. "Of COURSE he wanted to be pope", he laughed So if even Pope John the Good was very ambitious for power (to do good, I don't doubt) I can well imagine the politicking that goes on among the lesser lights, and no doubt some of the politicking isn't pretty.
Rita, wasn't it Kurtz who, at the USCCB's discussion of the new liturgical changes, offered the view that all the necessary catechesis was well worth it because, as he had learned from experience, his golf lessons, much as he didn't like to take them, helped him to enjoy the games so much more?
In the pages I looked at, there was virtually nothing negative about Bp Kurtz's handling of sexual abuse scandals. That, in itself, is remarkable, and so, to balance the negative facts mentioned here about him, I wish to point to something encouraging that I found on http://www.bishop-accountability.org/news2006/07_08/2006_07_23_Rodgers_R... about him: "But his forte is caring for the poor. His father was a coal miner. His older brother, who died in 2002, had Down syndrome and lived with the bishop. After his 1972 ordination for the Diocese of Allentown, he became a licensed social worker.He ran the diocese's social services. He was also a successful parish pastor from 1986 to 1999, before going to Knoxville.There, he sponsored joint social services between Catholic Charities and Lutheran Services, and was honored for his outreach to the area's new Hispanic community. He lobbied state legislators for tax reform and spoke at a rally to abolish the death penalty."
I guess I was wrong @ 5:02 about schism being a non-issue in Europe:http://www.nytimes.com/2010/11/17/world/europe/17iht-belgium.html?_r=2Way to go, Belgium!
Good comment by Father Reese in his analysis at the WaPo:""What is most remarkable about this meeting is that it took place in the middle of the most devastating economic downturn since the Great Depression, and the bishops said nothing about it," Reese noted. "It was as if they did not know that almost 10 percent of their parishioners are unemployed, that the new Congress is going to take aim at programs helping the poor and that now is the time to speak out for social justice. Their silence was deafening."
"Their silence was deafening". No wonder we get confused -- note that what Father Reese says corresponds to the picture on http://www.commonwealmagazine.org/blog/?p=10593
BobWhere did SNAP issue their statement? I would find it interesting to read, because it seems like SNAP's concern against Bishop Kicanas was being used by many to put pressure on the USCCB not to vote him in -- and many of the same people trying to put that pressure on the USCCB were talking about how they wanted Dolan as president. I wonder what SNAP had against Dolan and why this wasn't also mentioned by the other groups? Was it because such concern was really a mask for something else?
http://www.snapnetwork.org/snap_press_releases/2010_press_releases/11141..."In August, SNAP says, Dolan quietly, recklessly and deceptively let a prominent priest resign from his Harlem parish without mentioning that at least nine men have accused the priest of molesting them as boys. Two years ago, Dolans predecessor found the allegations credible and suspended the cleric."More detailed criticism of Abp Dolan can be found in a 2009 document, "Archbishop Dolan's Abysmal Track Record on Clergy Sex Abuse and Cover up", see http://www.bishop-accountability.org/news2009/01_02/2009_02_18_Isely_Arc... .
Jim Pauwels wrote:Is Archbishop Dolan more conservative than Kicanis? Of course, for bishops, the spectrum is not very wide, and so gradations are a little subtle.This strikes me as a worthwhile observation.It may be possible to read too much into this. Yes, it's rare for a sitting VP of the conference to not be elected president. But given how small the gradations in perspective are on the bishops bench...this could simply have been risk averse behavior on their part. Hardly any bishop has no accusations of some kind of abuse scandal failure (some without merit, undoubtedly), and the perception may have been established that Kicanas was sufficiently "unclean" to risk his elevation. Dolan's advantage may simply have been that he was higher profile and more obviously media savvy. There probably were other motivations - but were there really enough to make a difference?:Sigh: So much of this stuff is inside baseball. OTOH... Im sorry for Bishop Kicanis. He doesnt deserve this. If the bishops didnt want him to be president, they shouldnt have made him vice-president.The USCCB electorate which voted Kicanas in as VP is not precisely the same as the one which just voted this week.
Bender - fair point.Regarding SNAP: FWIW - I doubt that the bishops are swayed, nor would even want to create the impression that they are swayed, by anything SNAP does or says.If SNAP had clout, Dolan would not have been elected.Pending any further leaks, rumors or innuendo, I'm inclining toward Margaret and Grant's Cardinal Rigali conspiracy theory. And I agree that such a theory is consistent with the Roman-influence conspiracy theory. All of this, naturally, subject to the emergence of any actual evidence :-)
JimThe issue is that others were using the criticisms of SNAP against Kicanis while not revealing the accusations/concerns about Dolan. They got many people worked up against Kicanis that way.
J.M.J.I hope that Archbishop Dolan now knows the difference between those groups who live their lives in accord with the Magisterium's teaching and those who do not and will have the courage to inform those groups who are not in accord with the Magisterium's teaching to cease and desist. I will give him the benefit of the doubt in this video since he smiled at the words "return to the Sacraments", which is only possible if we repent and accept The Word into our hearts.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JtODpOOwSZg
FWIW - here is a quote from Laurie Goodstein's article in the NY Times. An example of Dolan's generally optimistic, "jolly" approach? My major priority would be to continue with all vigor I can muster whats already in place, Archbishop Dolan said. Its not like were in crisis; its not like all of a sudden we need some daring new initiatives. Thank God for the leadership of Cardinal Francis George, things are going well.If you haven't read Goodstein's piece, please do - it touches on a number of topics we're discussing here.http://www.nytimes.com/2010/11/17/us/17bishops.html?_r=1&nl=todaysheadli...
I have met a lot of bishops over my lifetime, and I can honestly say that Archbishop Joseph Kurtz of Louisville radiates kindness and goodness like no other. His election is wonderful news for the entire Church in the USA.
Henry -- not to mention the noise SNAP and other victims-advocate groups made about Cardinal George! It was plainly cynical for the anti-Kicanas campaigners to say "See, SNAP agrees with us" while ignoring all questions about Cardinal George's culpability. I'd be surprised if SNAP didn't register a protest for any one of the candidates; their purpose is to keep reminding us that the bishops, as a group and as individuals, have their hands dirty, and they have no shortage of material.Re: the Laurie Goodstein/NYT article, she quotes Robert George's take: "You could imagine a different approach where the bishops would say, This guy is too combative. We need someone more conciliatory." I suppose I can imagine that, but it takes some creativity. Dolan really isn't "combative" on the issues that George refers to; he could hardly be more conciliatory when it comes to defending (or reiterating) the church's teaching on homosexuality, for example.
"It's not like we are-thanks be to God-not in crisis." -Archbishop DolanCan you not discern the signs of our times?
"The issue is that others were using the criticisms of SNAP against Kicanis while not revealing the accusations/concerns about Dolan."Henry --You could well be right. What that would show if true is that the bishops themselves sometimes lack enough credible data to vote wisely. If by some miracle I had input into their deliberations I would urge that they form an ad hoc committee to study the vast problem of bishops' cover-ups, and that they form a standing committee to keep track of accusations of cover-ups (and perhaps other wrong-doing), and that committee would have to allow accused individuals to defend themselves. I suspect that a small but real part of the cover-ups problem is that Catholics are taught not to speak ill of anyone unless it is very clearly called for, as if that were an absolute principle of natural law. I don't think it is. What is wrong it to accuse without evidence. To wonder out loud to proper authority about suspected wrong-doing is not slander. The problem for the bishops is that often they *are* the proper authorities who should get reports and suspicions of wrong-doing, and they must check out such matters. That can't ever be pleasant, especially when the suspect is a friend, and checking out other people's sins goes against our too simple moral training as well as against the common American social assumption that to say anything negative about someone is to be rude. Maybe the moral theology of accusation needs to be reviewed.
oops, actually Archbishop Dolan said, "It's not like we are-thanks be to God-in crisis."It appears Archbishop Dolan is unable to discern the signs of our time.Our Lady of Fatima, please help us!
"It appears Archbishop Dolan is unable to discern the signs of our time."Now now, Nancy. Are you criticizing the magisterium?
No one has mentioned Dolan's past positions especially his time spend as rector at the North American Seminary in Rome. Since the last USCCB election, estimate 30+ bishops have been added to the group. Almost all of this group would have had Dolan as their rector in Rome. He was immensely popular - for good reason. Guessing that by the 2nd and 3rd vote, there were enough concerns about Kicanas; automatic VP getting President; etc. that Dolan was a sentimental favorite.Jim - would not dismiss the fact that some bishops were spooked by the last minute neo-con/SNAP politicking. They do not like to get messages, voicemails, etc. from their wealthy, conservative backers especially if the topic is sexual abuse.But, going forward, some concerns:a) some groups will now feel that they have been able to impact USCCB elections - is this good or bad or sets us up for more polarization?b) beyond this election, Kurz is personally a solid person but his track record (agree with Rita) is only polarizing. Give credit - he has led a remarkable life of witnesss but he will now be called on to exhibit skills that go way beyond what he has experienced;c) one can hope that the automatic elevation from VP to P is now over.
Goldstein quote Abp. Dolan: "We;re pastors and teachers not just one set of teachs in the Catholic community, the THE t eachers."Now there's a gross over-simplification if I ever saw one. Sigh.Noteworthy in Goldstein's article was this figure: Kurtz 147, Chaput 71. That's 3 to 2 for the good guy. But note that only 218 bishops voted on that office. Where were the others?
Nancy,You can write comments on Archbishop Dolan's blog. Why don't you communicate with him directly? If the Church is in crisis and Archbishop Dolan hasn't noticed, it would be remiss of you not to point it out to him.
Oops- that was 2 to 1 Kurtz over Chaput. (I must have had the same second grade math teacher as Jimmy Mac.)
Both NPR this morning and MSW over at NCR note how bishops were beseiged in the final days by the Catholic right not to vote for Kicanas.It appears that had some impact.I think this is much like US politics -attack stealth to have our ideology win - and i don't think it very Christian.And if Kicanas is really not guilty of protecting McCormick, was some casual slander involved by some who may not be the best informed, but latched on to whatever argument they could make?So it goes in the smaller, puere Church.
"I had referred to the Eucharist as the Bread of Life and the Cup of Salvation."Rita--That's curious. Can you elaborate on why Kurtz had a problem with that reference? What wasn't sufficiently doctrinal about it?
Rita, I'm also curious: he called you to complain, and then what happened? Did you convince him that "Bread of Life" is not an inappropriate term? Could his phone call have been a call for dialogue? (One can always wish...)
Mollie-I agree with you with Dolan maybe having too much on his plate. I cannot understand how one person could juggle all those demands. I also hope it doesn't tax his health.Anthony
Why did bishopaccountability.com send around an e-mail yesterday (16 Nov.) saying that Kicanas was "not fit to lead" and urging us all to get that message to our bishops? It sounds rather as if it was not only the right that sabotaged his candidacy?(Or did he say "nolo episcopari" and take himself out of the running?
I propose we have a new thread, based on Fr. Reese, with 9 plus percent unemployment and one in seven Americans in poverty. "Was the Silence Deafening?"
Nick,I seriously doubt Kicanas took himself out of the running. BA was under considerable pressure from Catholic conservatives to come out against his candidacy, and they caved. They shouldn't be called on to adjudicate episcopal politics, of course, but they were given a tough choice, and I think they overreacted.
Just added a 3rd update above.
Mark and Claire, yes, we did have a little dialogue about it. He acknowledged that those phrases are "biblical" (I forbore to say they are also in the texts of the liturgy itself), but that wasn't good enough. He was looking for the formula "real presence of Christ, body, soul, and divinity" and unless those words were said, it wasn't enough. We discussed it. No point in rehashing all that here. But the effect was an unpleasant one; I felt my faith was being questioned and my work critiqued by someone with a surprisingly narrow mind and on a surprisingly small basis. It's never happened to me before or since, and I've given talks in more than 75 dioceses. As you see, I never forgot it. A nice guy, otherwise. Yes, Claire, I can confirm that all those good things about practical charity are true. His mother and brother have died now, but they did live with him, and he ran Catholic Charities and was highly regarded. Susan, I don't remember the golf remark. He may have made it, but I don't recall.
No doubt, there is smoke because there is a fire. The question is, does the USCCB have the courage to put it out for the sake of Christ and His Church?
And here I am, naively believing that "practical charity" (coupled with prayer) is the medicine that would cure all of our problems, broaden narrow minds, bridge divides, enlighten and bring wisdom to each and all of us. The commentators here that keep calling our attention back to the Beatitudes have the same belief, I bet. Bill de Haas said that Bp Kurtz "has led a remarkable life of witness": that would make me want to listen to him, and give me confidence in his perhaps superior wisdom. I might even be willing to entertain the idea that sometimes I could be wrong and he could be right! Imagine that...But if, as it appears, at the same time he is narrow-minded (not merely with a blind spot or two, but in general), then I am puzzled: something's wrong with my belief system...
If the people in Phily want Kurtz to be their future AB, and if he wants to go there, I say "good for him and them".Interesting, Rita, that Kurtz was concerned that you didn't stress the Real Presence of Christ in the eucharist --- body, blood, soul, and divinity --- in your presentation. I'm reminded that the primitive Christians believed in the WHAT of the eucharist but were not preoccupied with the HOW. Perhaps I should send our AB a science kit to try to discover the metachemistry of the eucharist :)I'll be relieved when the guy is gone from Louisville.
This reminds me a bit of the dust up between "Mother" at EWTN and Cardinal Mahoney's pastoral on the Eucharist. Same type of "nit picky" language and what appears to be a lack of appreciation for traditional, scriptural references for Eucharist vs. a catechism, overly neo-Thomistic approach.Suggest that there are lots of people I know who lead good lives in terms of witness but, on the other hand, would not elect them to certain positions because their frame of reference is outdated, behind the times, not innovative or creative, etc. Personal witness is one thing; but in this time period we need true leaders over the USCCB and that requires a special set of skills. Personal life witness is just one of many skills necessary.
MSW's comments are very, very interesting. I suspect you're only going to see this electioneering (Ain't ecclesiastical democracy great?) coming from the Angry Right, and not the Left. Frankly, as long as a bishop toes the line on same-sex marriage, and gives the proper lip service to abortion, there will be no campaign against him. At least until the indictment on child rape hits the newsstand.Are these guys dumb enough to allow themselves to be painted into a corner? If they've never had significant time in the trenches (I mean as pastors of mainstream parishes) maybe I can believe it. No experienced pastor would allow himself to be swayed by the Culture of Complaint. And really, the Right may have e-mails, Twitter, Facebook, and their blogs, unlike my mother's friends from the 70's. But the style is very much like the pouters who fuss about not getting their way in some detail of parish life. So raise a cheer for the Right/SNAP alliance. We know who the real Teachers are today, don't we?
"I agree with you with Dolan maybe having too much on his plate. I cannot understand how one person could juggle all those demands."If he can handle all of that, maybe HE should run for POTUS. Of course, then he'd have to battle the tighty-righties on a regular basis and would no longer be considered to be Good Old Timmy. His birthplace might even be questioned and doubted. And his religion.
Quite telling is the what Kurts said to Rita. The Bread of Life and Cup of Salvation are in the bible while body, blood and divinity are not. It just shows the arrogance of the hierarchy in screwing up scripture. They are making themeselves more important than Jesus. The emphasis is more on obeying the bishops rather than Jesus. The bishops arrogantly think they speak for Jesus. They do not. The Spirit goes where it will. Sadly, too often it does not reach the hierarchy. But the Spirit always is with the people of God, the church. Which the bishops disclaim.
Rita--Thanks for the background. I heard somewhere that many Catholics don't fully appreciate the doctrine of real presence, so perhaps Kurtz wanted to emphasize that. Given your otherwise positive experiences of him, maybe he was having a bad day and it came out as hypercritical.
"yes, we did have a little dialogue about it. He acknowledged that those phrases are biblical (I forbore to say they are also in the texts of the liturgy itself), but that wasnt good enough. He was looking for the formula real presence of Christ, body, soul, and divinity and unless those words were said, it wasnt enough. "In a neighboring diocese in which I still have a couple of toes dipped, I've noticed that virtually every Sunday homily I hear manages to mention the Real Presence, Mary, and abortion. Such things don't happen by accident; it wouldn't surprise me to learn that the local bishop has instituted a "program" for preaching.
I thought this thread was mainly about Abp. Dolan.At any rate, John Allen has his take at NCR and it struck me as well blow hi atndards and dimplistic.The concomitant editorial; was I thought generous to the new leaders, perhaps overly generous.
Bob - read Tom Roberts at NCR. Interesting angle with good points. Puts a different slant on various points of view.
I was disappointed to see in the coverage by the NYTimes the "orthodox bishop" meme, in referring to Dolan. This gross use of the term orthodox deprives it of its meaning and unfairly establishes in the public mind that orthodoxy is an attribute possessed by only some of our bishops. I wish Dolan, who has no trouble criticizing the Times, would tell them that by identifying him as an orthodox bishop they are besmirching the honor of his brother bishops, and to stop it please.Young (ill educated) Catholics identify themselves as orthodox when they find EWTN and the NLM to their taste, thereby consigning to heterodoxy all the Catholics who don't. It's outrageous. But the news reports play right into this. Where are the heterodox Catholic bishops? Find me one in the USCCB.
Hi Rita,I think "Orthodox Catholic" sounds weird too. I think Ronald Knox mentions, in one of the "The X in Slow Motion" books, that it seemed odd to him that Catholics call Orthodox Christians "orthdox," as if they were admitting to heterodoxy themselves, and the Orthodox call Catholics "catholic," as if they were conceding that their own faith is not quite universal.
Thanks, Felapton.What concerns me is this "church within a church" mentality which actually translates into a program in which the church is pushed to become a sect. Now, to be fair, there are such things as heterodox bishops. Archbishop Milingo of Zambia was a heterodox bishop. But they are very, very few. To describe Dolan as orthodox, as opposed to the other candidates on the ballot, is just a false description.I have to admit to puzzlement about what is being conveyed here. What do journalists mean when they say orthodox? I am not sure that even they know. Straitlaced? Rigid? Black and white in their views? Enforcers of unpopular teachings? More concerned about how things will look in Rome than about pastoral realities at home? (There are other words for this one!) Right wing politically?
That's a thought, Bob. So perhaps the opposite of orthodox in this sense is not heterodox but original or creative?
Rocco has a video of Archbisop Dolan's first press conference online. One suprising interchange occurred when the reporter from "America" was recognized. (Someone named Kevin, perhaps Kevin Clarke?) Archbishop Dolan said, off camera, something like "ah-- from New York!" -- and then he quickly asked," Anyone from Commonweal here?" The fellow from "America quipped," " They don't have the budget for this..." And Dolan quickly said: "Good!" Jerry Filteau and Michael Sean Wnters and Laurie Goodstein all got treated to the old Dolan charm, however. http://whispersintheloggia.blogspot.com/
We need a new thread on Abp. Dolan and his "expansive" interview yesterday discussed in NYT about the problem of so many Catholics moving away.
