Live-blogging Obama at Notre Dame
May 17, 2009, 1:04 pm
Posted by David Gibson
I’ll start an open thread here for the Obama commencement address starting shortly. Feel free to weigh in, any and all, with as-it-happens reactions, or more considered thoughts afterwards.
MSNBC has a livefeed. Fr. James Martin, SJ, is a CNN analyst opposite EWTN’s Raymond Arroyo.
Maybe no speech at all if the cheering doesn’t stop…
The HuffPo has the full text:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/05/17/obama-notre-dame-speech-f_n_204387.html?view=print
Oama could hope he’s as good as the valedictorian.
With endless division “cooperation ends even for those causes both sides care about.”
Father Jenkins is hitting the same themes Obama will in his speech. Powerful stuff, I think.
Faith and reason–he connects the dots between Benedict XVI and Cardinal Bernardin. Not bad.
Jenkins shows the love, but it is a powerful summation of all that weighs in Obama’s favor, and why they invited him. All those virtues, and the arguments that bolster ND’s decisions, have been lost in the incessant “pro-abortion” meme and talking points of the right.
A vote of confidence for Jenkins leadersip from Obama–and the crowd.
But what was the hubbub I seemed to hear in the intervening silence?
Protesters shouting, being taken out. Shouted down. John Norton et al are on site Twittering.
Obama responds graciously, no surprise. Not shaping up as a good day for the anti-abortion crowd.
John Norton has the ugliness:
http://twitter.com/johnnortonosv
Applause for lines that indicate support of policy proposals many want–abortion reduction, conscience clause, etc.
Faith and Reason. Faith and Reason. The mantra of the day. And another Big Catholic’s favorite slogan.
Father Ted blesses the crowd. And vice versa.
Other motif: The Fishermen. The civil rights commission–a precedent on abortion policy?
Can’t find a streaming video of Noonan’s speech. Zut alors.
Check out this site for Noonan’s talk: http://commencement.nd.edu/commencement-weekend/commencement-videos/
“The fact is, at some level, the views of the two camps are irreconcilable”
I guess that settles it. We hold these Truths to be self-evident, NOT all men are created equal, Not all Men are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights to Life, Liberty and The Pursuit of Happiness….
Nancy, I’m a relative newcomer to these discussions so I guess I’m missing something. What is the relationship between the quote and your statement?
Thanks Melissa. Judge Noonan turns in his usual on the mark comments. “Magana est veritas et praevalebit.”
President Jenkins acquitted himself well. President Obama delivered a sermon that we could all take to heart.
Melissa, thanks. I missed it, but will review. Caught a couple piquant quotes from John Norton’s Tweets.
Actions are substantive and lasting. Words are ephemeral and fleeting.
There has always been and continues to be a contradiction between Obama’s words and actions.
Everyone is so mesmerized by his words, that they miss the actions.
He says he wants to reduce abortion, yet voted against a law requiring medical treatment for babies “accidentally” born alive during abortion procedures. These babies were being thrown in the garbage or left alone in utility rooms to die.
Rebecca, from the beginning of the founding of this Nation, the Right to Life has always been a Universal Truth. One does not need to be Catholic to understand the Universal Truth that all Men are created equal, that all Men are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, the Right to Life, Liberty, and The Pursuit of Happiness. The Right to Life is the fundamental Right upon which all other Rights are dependent upon from the beginning.
I guess this discussion is above my pay grade but since I am retired I don’t have a pay grade.
Nonetheless, it would be interesting to know how one can compromise on the matter of aborting babies.
Should one abort some? [Reduce the number of abortions?] How many? How are they to be chosen? We are already aborting black babies, so that should reduce the future crime rate, I guess.
Should one follow the rule in other countries and abort girls? [That will certainly reduce the possible number of future pregnancies]. Or should we have a cost-effectiveness measure as is now done in Sweden, aimed at reducing the number of imperfect babies?
Just about the time Mr. Obama was in Harvard there were several scandals about corruption on Wall Street [how little things change!]. There was much breast beating about teaching courses in ethics at the Harvard Business School. Did this proposal succeed? Was there a similar effort at the Harvard Law School?
Just so you know, the word created means, “to cause to come into being”. A Child in their Mother’s Womb is a Human Being because a Child of a Human Being can only be a Human Being.
The President said something that was new to me, and, I think, it’s terribly important — that humility itself requires that we be somewhat skeptical of our own certainty. Sometimes it is pride that keeps our minds closed to truth, that keeps us ignorant. Unfortunately, sometimes it’s the old Church teaching that doubting what Rome says is a sin.
Iiron=clad certainty is not consistent with humility. Thank you, Mr. President.
So Ann, are you saying that humility requires that we be somewhat skeptical of our own certainty? Have you ever known any Woman that was pregnant to bring forth a non Human Being from her Womb? That seems, well, unreasonable.
BTW – excellent article in the Washington Post today, Mr. Gibson.
Stories/themes, IMHO:
a) pick up on Mr. Gibson’s thought – another commission like the civil rights commission only this time on abortion or at least ways of reducing abortion across all aspects of society;
b) Fr. Jenkins and the President have blended their comments well and the President has the presence of mind to merge some of the thoughts of the valedictorian;
c) great image of Fr. Hesburgh – civil rights – Cardinal Bernandin and MLK in Chicago….common shared history, passion, common ground;
d) realistic stories – no over-promising; key point – “both, and” of Catholic tradition and theology – called to be a lighthouse and to meet at the crossroads. To avoid either is to miss your call as a catholic ND graduate. (reading between the lines, rejection of the protestors single issue mantra; inability to meet half way; basically reminding catholics that our forte is the BIG TENT;
e) interesting reference to “conscience clause” – a change in perspective?
f) ends with an refreshing call to humility – that faith brings doubt and dialogue can not happen if all parties have absolute certainity. Need to suspend that for the higher good – which is the commandment to love, respect, and given full dignity to each other even in the midst of disagreement.
Notre Dame should be proud. The great “both, and” has been met.
Ann, curiously, you are making an apodectic statement about the nature of humility and its relationship to humility.
Note that for David Gibson, pro-life protestors are “ugly,” but you won’t see him refer to abortion as “ugly” …
JH
“These babies were being thrown in the garbage or left alone in utility rooms to die.”
Untrue:
http://archpundit.com/blog/2008/08/20/the-problem-with-staneks-entire-argument/
I thought it was a fine speech, and as my earlier posts have urged, one underscoring common ground as we move forward.
I want to join Bill D. on thanking David for his op-ed in today’s Washington Post.
I see the usual suspects have shown up here too with pretty much repetitions of their criticisms of the President.
I don’t expect that to change much, but it’s too bad, because tommorrow and henceforth we’re still going to try to move forward on the isue and one issue “apodectic” statements won’t move us forward.
Gabriel Austin
“Nonetheless, it would be interesting to know how one can compromise on the matter of aborting babies”
Yes it would be interesting. The church does not allow abortion in any circumstance. By this, it does not allow the direct or intentional killing of a fetus even in cases when necessary to save the mother’s life. Are you ready to avoid any compromise about this?
“Iron=clad certainty is not consistent with humility.”
Just another, maybe better, way of saying that once a fixed idea of duty gets inside a narrow mind, it can never get out.
Thanks to David for posting the text and doing the live blogging. I don’t have tv, but looked around and eventually found youtubes of the speech. I thought it was pretty good – “This doubt should not push us away from our faith. But it should humble us. It should temper our passions, and cause us to be wary of self-righteousness. It should compel us to remain open, and curious, and eager to continue the moral and spiritual debate ….” That’s what I meant in an earlier post about the mission of a university, as well as a goal for individuals.
David-
Great piece in the Washington Post. You won me over when you quoted one of my favorite papal one-liners:
“There is no need of adding any qualifying terms to the profession of Catholicism,” Benedict XV concluded. “It is quite enough for each one to proclaim ‘Christian is my name and Catholic my surname.’”
If you decide to make bumperstickers with this on it, count me in for a bunch!
Best laugh of the day, if you missed it, was Fox News analyst Mike Gallagher who did the negative bit on Obama. ” disgrace, scandal for ND.’ ‘They betrayed their Catholic backround’
‘diobeyed the bishops’
He mentioned his credentials three times as ‘being rasied Catholic.’.At the very end he admitted he became a Methodist.. The Fox anchor looked ‘gut punched’ . I howled with laughter.
In The next weeks we will be seeing the ‘hard 60 bishops’ trying to wiggle/snatch their arrows out of Randall Terry’s and Alan Keyes quiver. Good luck..
As a Catholic, I disagree with President Obama’s opinion on abortion. As a communication consultant, I continue to marvel at his ability pull people together. God is no doubt at work within someone so gifted in rhetoric that unites.
I agree with President Obama–humility requires that we be skeptical of the “certain” knowledge that we can’t have certain knowledge about anything.
“God is no doubt at work within someone so gifted in rhetoric that unites.”
God is at work, if the people are united to to good. If the rhetorical talents are used to unite people to do evil, God might not be the one at work.
Obama says he wants a sensible conscience regulation. Which is why, I suppose, he is causing there to be no conscience regulation. If rhetoric that says one thing, and action says another, can be we skeptical of that certain knowledge that a man with such beautiful rhetoric is worthy of Catholic support?
By invoking Cardinal Bernardin’s name, several times using the term “common ground,” and praising the anti-povery work Chicago parishes did, the president offered his understanding of what it means to be Catholic. It obviously appealed to the coming generation of Notre Dame alums and to many others. I can see what the opposing bishops were afraid of.
Ann (and Obama) seem certain that we cannot know anything with certainty.
The conundrum facing all skeptics.
I was hoping President Obama would cite the passage from ‘Audacity of Hope” about his exchange of views with the prolife physician. So powerful. So apt.
I wonder if the shrill voices on both sides of the Notre Dame controversy would agree with the President’s observation that *both* sides have demonized and caricatured the other. I suspect that the irenic tone he sounded resonates with many Catholics…but not many of the Catholics that have voice and have regularly opined on this controversy.
Wouldn’t it be refreshing to read, “I (agreed/disagreed) with the invitation, but I can certainly understand why another Catholic might reach a different conclusion”? Or what about, “I’m conflicted about this matter and neither of the reflexive responses (‘abortion restriction as sine qua non’ vs. ‘abortion restriction as impermissable criminalization’) works for me.”
“If rhetoric that says one thing, and action says another, can be we skeptical of that certain knowledge that a man with such beautiful rhetoric is worthy of Catholic support?”
We most certainly can. If not for our ability to debate intelligently, we might as well resign ourselves to putting the gloves on and fighting it out until the last person standing can proclaim his opinion to be the absolute truth. I think this president understands that better than most. Jason, I respect your right to forcefully and argumentatively present your point-of-view.
I thought ND did everything appropriately. I was most inspired by Fr. Jenkins introduction, and President Obama was sincere when he said it was the most eloquently delivered introduction that he had. Talking with those you disagree with is always more appropriate than not talking, and I think that was admirably demonstrated today. I also think O bama was “touched” enought to maybe rethink a few things on these issues himself.
Denise,
While I agree that touching people is far preferable to punching them in the face, I doubt that the president will rethink his views. It is enough for me that he presents his views in language that attempts to unite.
Denise,
Why would Obama “rethink” anything? The entire event seemed to be a celebration of “Americanism”.
Perhaps Notre Dame and C.U.A. are at opposite poles in the contemporary Americanist crisis.
“Should one abort some? [Reduce the number of abortions?] How many? How are they to be chosen? We are already aborting black babies, so that should reduce the future crime rate, I guess.
Mr. Austin:
You seem to have missed the point of the pro-choice position.. The pro=choice people are not asking that the government choose which babies are to be aborted. They propose that the mother have the right to chose. The pro=choicers are not pushing to turn this into China. Please, let’s get the proposals on both — or should I say, all — side straight.
Robert,
Perhaps Notre Dame and the Catholic University of America are at “opposite poles in the contemporary Americanist crisis”, but if you would be willing to indulge a commoner by explaining this stament, I would be most appreciative.
The ‘hard 65 bishops’ are now saying that the Honorary degree is the big problem.. the Honorary degree is at the core of their complaint… see A/B Dolan today.
Obama said Fr Hesberg recieved 165 of them ..to Omama’s one out of two tries.
I take a chance at offending the the academics on this blog but of the 65 million Catholics about 63 million would think fly-paper is more valuable than an Honorary degree.
That said, it puts the ‘hard bishops’ in the position that they think that used fly-paper is the hill on which they want to make their stand….At least Terry and Keyes by yelling ‘baby killers’, make a more understandable case than the bishops.
“So Ann, are you saying that humility requires that we be somewhat skeptical of our own certainty? Have you ever known any Woman that was pregnant to bring forth a non Human Being from her Womb? That seems, well, unreasonable.”
Nancy –
Yes, I’m said exactly what you say in your first sentence. But I did not say that we should always be skeptical about everything. It is impossible to be totally skeptical without falling into skepticism anyway.
But, yes, when there is evidence which seems to indicate that we are wrong about important matters — especially matters involving other people — we must look at our thinking with proper humility. How can you deny that?
Yes, I see this as a moral issue. We ought never forget that because we *know* that we are fallible, we ought to re-examine our views as to whether or not they require some adjustment or even abandonment. This might not be what the nuns taught you, but they can be wrong too.
Nancy –
About women giving birth to non-humans. Yes, sadly, women sometimes give birth to monsters. This is a terribly, terribly sad fact of life, A visit to your local med school might convince you of its truth.
Ann and Nancy. Your comments are certainly gender specific. Not that I could understand no matter how hard I tried, But as a married man of 25 years and the father of a beautiful son and daughter, I would like to know how women can give birth to non-humans.
Kathy –
What do you mean by “apodictic statement: here? A necessary one? A demonstrable one? (They’re not the same thing.) Surely you didn’t mean an empirical generalization, which is what I think my statement was.
Here is is again: humility itself requires that we be somewhat skeptical of our own certainty”.
I have never been more proud of Notre Dame than I was today. It was an unbelievable experience to be there and to literally (and I actually mean literally) feel the good will in the Joyce Center. I think this could be bigger than the Cumo speech…and could move us a far more positive direction.
Charles,
Help an old timer out with what the Cumo speech was.
“Ann (and Obama) seem certain that we cannot know anything with certainty.
The conundrum facing all skeptics.”
Mr. Dibdale –
Neither I nor President Obama said that. Please read more carefully. It is impossible to doubt everything, and i don’t doubt for a moment that Pres. Obama also knows that.
It seems to me that this discussion shows is that we educated Catholics, and some uneducated ones as well, are desperately in need of a theological epistemology — a basic and thorough understanding of both the grounds and the limits of theological belief.
Sounds like a great day for Notre Dame. Hopefully, we can build on that.