Ave Maria Town: Roman Catholic…and un-American?
Ave Maria Town in southern Florida is the newly-constructed enclave of pure-land Catholicism founded and funded by former pizza magnate Tom Monaghan, and it has drawn its fair share of criticism since construction began in 2005. Even many conservatives are uneasy with the throwback Catholicism that Mongahan wants to recreate in a soup-to-nuts, town-and-gown town that features a “traditional” university–but one that tried to fire the Ratzinger protege and blue-ribbon conservative, Jesuit Fr. Joe Fessio. (Student and other protests led to his re-hiring.) Early reports were that Monaghan and his development partners would ban anything un-Catholic, like porn and cable TV–and non-Catholic residents–though those strictures were apparently overstated.
Now, a well-reported and well-written investigative piece by the local paper, The Naples Daily News, has uncovered a disturbing legal twist to Ave Maria–namely, that its own residents have no say in their own affairs because the five-member board will be controlled in perpetuity by Monaghan and the developer, Barron Collier:
When Kathy Delaney moved a year and a half ago with her two teenage sons from Maryland to Ave Maria, she believed certain rights remained unalienable.
Elections, she thought, followed the rule she’d known all her life: Her vote counted as much as anyone’s. Delaney could only assume the government of her new town operated the same.
“I was even thinking, wouldn’t it be great,” Delaney said. “We could actually have our own mayor.”
Actually, no. When Monaghan et al started the development on 11,000 acres of former farm fields they also wrote and lobbied for a state law–that passed–allowing them unique power to control the town forever through a five-member board on which they would always have a majority. As the story relates:
The law gives Monaghan and Barron Collier Cos. more power than any Florida developer in at least 24 years, power perhaps not seen since the days of the early 20th century land boom. The law makes landowners, not registered voters, the ultimate authority in Ave Maria. The law ensures Monaghan and Barron Collier Cos., as the largest landowners, can control Ave Maria’s government forever.
“I thought at some point we would be able to have a say in how the town ran,” Delaney said when approached by the Daily News and shown the government’s structure.
The series, “Ave Maria – A Town Without a Vote: Now and forever,” ran in three parts, from Saturday to Monday, and it is the kind of in-depth reporting that I fear will disappear if (when?) newspapers do.
Ave Maria also, unfortunately, feeds into the old stereotype that Catholics are more comfortable with divine right hierarchy than open democracy–that you can’t be a good American and a good Catholic. Yet as the series notes, Ave Maria may be in the American tradition of land barons more than it is in the Catholic tradition–at least of the past century, and especially under John Paul II–of holding up democracy as the political ideal, as long as it is accompanied by civic virtue. Maybe Monaghan doesn’t trust his own good Catholic residents?
PS: Looking at photos in the series, I was struck for the first time–though I’ve seen it before–by the town church, crafted in the shape of a bishop’s mitre. I don’t know why, but this time it really bothered me, as if it is a church dedicated to the worship of a bishop. Yes, we have bishops good and bad, but none I know (I hope) would feel remtoely comfortable with that. Perhaps no coincidence that the local ordinary, Bishop Frank Dewane, had to postpone dedication of the church due concerns over its canonical status and cooperation as part of the diocese.
I’ll be there’ll be no contracepting, abortion or ESCR allowed … or even debated, by golly.
This is taking non-engagement with the world to an absurd level. Catholic isolationism bugs me for some reason.
Hello Jimmy (and All),
It’s my understanding that Monaghan originally wanted Ave Maria the city to have laws banning abortions and the sale of contraceptives within its jurisdiction. However, when he learned that Ave Maria could not legally have such bans he announced publicly that Ave Maria would comply with the law.
I think I’m right that individual physicians may decline to perform abortions and individual merchants can decline to sell contraceptives, so perhaps Ave Maria will be able to achieve a de facto ban on abortion and contraception if their resident physicians and resident merchants are all orthodox Roman Catholics, which seems to be what the city planners are hoping for.
How could we get to such “enclave Catholicism?”
See Cathy’s thread about are we going to be just another denomination.
Oh, I don’t know. It might be exciting to live in a town where tridentine masses, mantillae, mumbling rosaries, clerical aggrandizement and subservient women are the rule rather than the exception.
Right.
This whole project is a fundamentalist throw back that does more harm than good to the Catholic Church. My guess is – if you could get the bishop off-record, he would say that this is a nightmare; interferes with his time, energy, resources that probably need to be spent on the rest of the diocese.
Mr. Gibson – this is a well-researched series of articles but you could also add the research done about the university:
a) significant financial issues – students withdrawing;
b) internal controversy because of loss of donors; use of financial resources…not exactly a comfortable, christian atmosphere;
c) you do mention the squabble with Fessio who was fired by his own Jesuits while at the Univ. of San Francisco – he really needs to be assigned to EWTN;
d) as with any university – you can find disaffected students and families that describe Ave Maria as more like a cult.
Hello All,
I have taken to using Ave Maria the university and Ave Maria the city as stock examples in the political philosophy courses I teach, because in my opinion this university and city represent perhaps the clearest contemporary example of a deliberate attempt to create a city state in the Aristotelian mode. (However, I’m not as confident that any of the city planners have studied Aristotle’s Politics.) This plan of vesting authority in the landowners is in fact much like what Aristotle recommends for an ideal city-state. Aristotle argues that only make citizens wealthy enough to own land should have a voice in the government of the city state because the rest of the people are either naturally unsuited to take part in government (the slaves and the women) or are too busy working to sustain themselves (the farmers and the “vulgar craftsmen”) to cultivate the civic virtue necessary to be a good member of the governing assembly.
I think I’m safe in saying that the planners of Ave Maria the university and city believe they are creating a safe haven that will preserve the faithful remnant of Roman Catholicism within the United States. But I wonder if in the end this community may lose important parts of its Catholic identity in spite of the intentions of its founders. As some here have observed, the SSPX have developed some of its more bizarre views because its members talk only with one another.
Mr. Gibson – your Pontifications post has some other excellent threads on it. Especially the comments that the local bishop (very conservative) clashes with Monaghan and to not be taken in by the university’s “orthodox, conservative, etc.”…..point – this only makes sense if you define those terms with the same meaning as Monaghan.
There has been a constant blog/watch over this “project”: http://www.avewatch.com Current article is the same as you have posted here.
Also, the university has not received accreditation from any recognized and key college/university accreditation board or association. This could impact students who try to transition to other universities.
An added issue is the relocation of the Ave Marie School of Law – was in Michigan. This is costing millions and creating much internal dissent.
You also could access AveWatch.com and look into the links to Steubenville – not that much different in terms of approach and concept. (Steubenville has its own very charismatic approach to catholicism and its own power struggles in the administration….geez, you would think that orthodox, conservative catholics would not be interested in power and authority).
Hello Bill (and All),
Perhaps Ave Maria has not existed long enough to have been accredited. I think Ave Maria University is only one year older than UC Merced where I am working, and UC Merced will not start its formal accreditation process till the start of next academic year. We are graduating our first full class of seniors this Saturday (with Michelle Obama as main commencement speaker). I’m on the accreditation committee and I’ve learned that a university needs to have at least one full class of seniors out the door before the formal accreditation process starts.
By the way all, sorry for the bad grammar in my last post — I should have typed more slowly!
David, do you have any formal statements from the architect about the design of the church? What was his architectural background?
Mr Gibson – you make a comment about the style of the “oratory” – church looking like a bishop’s miter. In fact, it is the Ave Marie trademark.
“If Ray Kroc, founder of McDonalds, built his own church and shaped the tabernacle like Golden Arches, people would likely find it tacky to the point of disrespectful.
Tom Monaghan takes his lay ministry of entrepreneurial Catholicism to new “Mass” marketing frontiers by branding, in the shape of his Ave Maria logo, what appears to be the proposed oratory’s tabernacle.
The tabernacle is the holiest part of a Catholic church. It is where Jesus’ actual body, in the form of the Blessed Sacrament, is said to reside. As a sign of respect, Catholics typically genuflect (kneel) or bow facing the tabernacle when entering or exiting a pew, or when passing in front of the altar. Is Monaghan counting on the faithful’s inability to distinguish between the Blessed Sacrament and the Ave Maria brand’s logo when genuflecting or bowing?
It will be difficult, however, to take all this too seriously since the remainder of the proposed altar looks ready to host a meeting of the Jedi Council.
Additional photos from Naples Daily News are here. NDN reports that:
“Ave Maria never received written permission to build a church in the Diocese of Venice. That means, canon law experts say, that the oratory at Ave Maria can never be a parish church.“
“I think I’m safe in saying that the planners of Ave Maria the university and city believe they are creating a safe haven that will preserve the faithful remnant of Roman Catholicism within the United States. ”
Hi, Peter,
That is an interesting point. The church already has many havens that are, in a sense, withdrawn from the hurly-burly rhythms of the everyday world – monasteries, abbeys, and the like. But not everyone wishes to or is able to make a lifetime commitment to that way of life, and celibacy isn’t for everyone.
Around here, when one goes on a weekend retreat, one goes to a house that is situated in a rural or wilderness area. It’s a sort of haven, and a very refreshing one.
I’ve idly wondered if there would be a way to integrate the ordered religious community life and married and family life in some way – for a period of time shorter than a lifetime, but longer than a weekend. A way for a family to “plunge into” a more ordered community life, centered on prayer, community fellowship, and charitable works in a way that is more intensive and sustained than is possible in typical urban or suburban parish life. I supppose Ave Maria Town is such an attempt. It seems a little … extreme, though.
“(with Michelle Obama as main commencement speaker). ”
Ooh, wait ’til I tell the Cardinal Newman Society … :-)
They have been in the accreditation process for a number of years. The most recent changes to the university logo and charter was the removal of the phrase “Ex Corde Ecclesia” and
More extensive accreditation information: Those who think that Ave Maria University (AMU) and its Nicaraguan branch campus (AMULAC) have stable accreditation should reconsider. Today’s issue of Inside Higher Education explains that the status of accrediting agency AALE is still quite tenuous, “twisting in the wind”. Excerpts:
The liberal education agency [AALE] continues to live in a sort of limbo – or purgatory, depending on one’s view – in which the colleges it now accredits and those would-be future candidates are unsure about its vitality, if not its survival.
In the less than two years since the accreditor came into the sights of the Education Department’s leaders.. between a third and half of the colleges and programs AALE accredits in the United States have jumped ship.
[AALE President] Wallin declined to discuss the financial impact the department’s actions have had, but for an accrediting agency, lost members mean lost dues, and dues pay the bills. “The situation is very serious,” he said.
Since 2001, AALE has been in trouble with the Department of Education for not delivering on information that AALE’s Wallin repeatedly agreed – himself – to deliver to NACIQI. A read of AALE’s appearances before NACIQI show AALE to be a sloppy inarticulate organization that lacks accountability; as far back as 2006, AALE was put on notice that its inability to execute could no longer be tolerated. This was all prior to ED Secretary Spellings’ emphasis on outcome measures; in fact, it is AveWatch’s opinion that those who rightfully complain about the new focus on outcomes can thank lax accrediting agencies like AALE for the (over) correction. Regardless, it is a red herring to blame AALE’s long-time troubles on its liberal arts emphasis. Those who truly value the liberal arts do well by not mixing their cause with AALE’s baggage.
AALE is Ave Maria’s sole access-point to federal student assistance.
Related AveWatch Articles:
AALE Accrediting Agency Violates Own Policy for Ave Maria
Exposed: DoE Spanks AALE Accreditation
AMU’s Sole Accreditor in Big Trouble
AMU Accreditor Not Endorsed by ED
AMU Accreditor Still Fumbling
Accreditation, Boards, and Conflicts
summary of all accreditation articles: 2006-2007; 2008
There are many disturbing aspects of Monaghan and this university:
Connection to a special group, OBS: According to Ave Maria University’s website (screen capture), the AMU Founder’s Club hosted a visit from the President of “Opus Bono Sacerdotii” (OBS), Joseph Maher, one year ago this past Friday (December 19). IRS records show that the self-described exempt purpose of OBS is to offer “outplacement services for Roman Catholic priests and religious men and women for the purpose of providing a transition from one position to another”.
The University’s Founders Club, which was established by Tom Monaghan (NY Times, 2/10/2003), advertised that the purpose of OBS was “to find solutions to sensitive situations confronting priests and religious in accordance with the authentic teaching of the Church.”
“Outplacement services” for “sensitive situations”?
Translation: OBS helps to quietly shuffle around pederast priests.
According to the OBS website, Joseph Maher helped start the organization in Detroit in 2002 after “he received much public attention for his staunch support of a priest from his parish who was accused of rape. Today, over 2,000 priests have contacted Opus Bono Sacerdotii for assistance, with more calling on a weekly basis.”
This “outplacement service” is a relatively lucrative job for Maher. IRS 990s show that Maher received $106,000 compensation as OBS’s President in 2005; that same year, OBS spent $93,835 on what they called “food, shelter and clothing for indigents”. The next year, Maher was given a raise of over $30,000, pumping his compensation up to $137,341. The organization’s expense-to-charity ratio does not speak well for how OBS is run, particularly when one considers OBS’s other non-salary expenses, like $17,000 for “chapel” in 2005/2006 combined (Why does an organization with one employee need a private chapel?)
OBS and its Ave Maria supporters might claim that the mission of the organization is to support accused innocent priests who are defending wrongful allegations. But according to their website, OBS cares nothing about whether their clients are innocent or guilty (excerpt):
“In cases where legal procedures in civil, criminal or canon law are required: A client’s innocence or guilt is not a determining factor in obtaining assistance from OBS”
From the Washington Post, Oct 13, 2002:
“In Detroit, Maher said he does not attempt to determine whether a priest is innocent or guilty before providing financial help from Opus Bono Sacerdotii. The group, which he said has raised $100,000 and applied to the Internal Revenue Service for charitable status, is assisting the Rev. Robert Burkholder, who returned to Michigan from retirement in Hawaii this month to face charges of molesting a 13-year-old boy in 1986.”
“In an interview published by the Detroit News in August, Burkholder, 82, admitted that he had had sexual encounters with “maybe a dozen or two” boys between the ages of 11 and 14, but contended that they were consensual. “It takes two to tango,” he said. “Some of the accusations are true, but so what? I was a priest — a good priest — who had a weakness.”
Burkholder, who was labeled Michigan’s worst pedophile priest by Wayne County Prosecutor Michael Duggan, was sentenced to jail after pleading no contest to two second-degree criminal sexual conduct charges. As far back as 1993, it was known that Burkholder was a menace; that year, his priestly duties were constrained by his diocese as he admitted, in writing, to molesting at least 23 boys.
None of that – not even Burkholder’s unrepentant “two to tango” or “so what” – mattered to OBS.
In another pederast crusade adopted by OBS, Maher sent 3,000 fund raising letters to support a jailed priest who was accused of 13 sex crimes on 6 boys. South Bend Tribune, Oct. 28, 2005, excerpt (full):
“I think it’s outrageous what [OBS is] doing,” [Bishop] D’Arcy said. “We never gave them any [diocesan mailing] list. They’re unauthorized to do this and it’s wrong. … I don’t know anything about (Maher) and he doesn’t know anything about this case. He’s out of order writing to our people.”
One recipient is a local man scheduled to testify at the trial that LeBrun fondled him in the early 1980s.
“I was extremely offended to receive this thing, and to try to solicit support from victims?” the local man said. “How low.”
In January 2006, the priest that Maher so vigorously helped was sentenced to 111 years in prison (more).
OBS is connected to Tom Monaghan far beyond Joseph Maher’s invitation to speak at the Ave Maria University Founder’s Club. Maher and OBS co-founder Paul Barron are both members of Legatus, Tom Monaghan’s club for rich Catholic businessmen (AveWatch archive on Legatus here). OBS and Ave Maria also pick from the same talent pool.
Fr. Richard John Neuhaus, a Catholic power broker who sits on AMU’s Board and often defends Monaghan’s questionable educational practices, serves on the OBS Advisory panel. OBS quotes Neuhaus:
“More power to you [OBS]! It is important that we counter this vicious notion that an injustice or alleged injustice of years ago can be righted by a new injustice now. The demand that a person “must be punished,” no matter how long ago the offense or the repentance and transformation of the offender, is nothing more than a demand for vengeance, which, as the Scriptures remind us, is not rightly ours. Do let me know how your project progresses.
Cordially, (The Rev.) Richard John Neuhaus”
Another OBS Advisor was the prominent canon lawyer Fr. Gregory Ingels. In 2002, he helped craft the “zero tolerance” policy on sex abuse adopted by American Catholics. The following year, in 2003, he was charged for a 1972 incident of sodomy and “substantial sexual conduct” with a boy. In the criminal complaint, Ingels acknowledged having had sex with the boy and could be heard on tape saying, “What I did to you was terrible.”
This was not a singular moment of weakness or indiscretion on Ingels’ part. In the summer of 2003, a second case against Ingels was assembled by the local district attorney. A former female student of Fr. Ingels, Jane Parkhurst, alleged that the priest began to “cultivate” her at age 15, taking advantage of a troubled home life that started after her parents died in a car accident. She told authorities that Ingels had sexually abused her for four years starting in 1973. Excerpt, San Francisco Weekly (more):
“On numerous occasions — at the school, in a church rectory, and once while taking her for a ride in his Mustang convertible — he insisted that she masturbate him and fellate him, Parkhurst says. As SF Weekly disclosed earlier this year, Parkhurst kept nearly three dozen love letters Ingels had written to her starting in 1974, letters he continued to write even after he went to Rome in 1977 to study canon law.”
In the “love letters” to this girl, Ingels discussed erections, “wet dreams”, and the consistency of semen, handwritten on parish letterhead. All charges against Ingels were later dropped due to a 5-4 U.S. Supreme Court decision that struck down as unconstitutional a California law that extended the statutes of limitation in sex crimes. Ingels’ Archbishop, William Levada, knew of the allegations back in 1996, but did nothing. Levada approved a payment to Parkhurst of nearly $2.7 million.
Even after all this, OBS President Joseph Maher was quoted as saying that his organization was “grateful to have him [Ingels]” (San Francisco Weekly; 7/13/2005):
“He’s an excellent priest, a very holy man, and he’s a great help to us.”
One of the most vocal cheerleaders supporting OBS is Fr. Michael Orsi, the Chaplain at Tom Monaghan’s Ave Maria School of Law. Orsi serves as an OBS Advisor and writes for their website. AveWatch has an extensive archive covering Orsi’s controversial
The design for the church takes its inspiration from a failed Dominoes product from the time when Monaghan still owned the company. It was to be called the Episcoboli, but was too impractical to bake in the Dominoes ovens. He decided to turn it into a church.
David, thanks for this post. I wonder if the voting rights in the town are modeled on those of a corporation given Monaghan’s background. This is to say that the landowners are stockholders, and Monaghan, as principle shareholder, is in charge. Sounds more like a business than a church.
Hello Bill (and All),
Clearly you are a lot better plugged in than am I. Is AveWatch a web site dedicated to gathering information about Ave Maria? And are there any data or testimonials regarding the reliability of the information on this site? I’m sure the information is reliable or you would not have pointed us to it. But I’d like to be able to use this information and possibly pass it along to my students in future courses.
Just a personal opinion here: My impression from my attempts to study Ave Maria University’s own web site is that the university is somewhat secretive regarding its academic life and the rest of life on campus.
Peter – over the years I have found AveWatch to be reputable, careful, and thorough in what it publishes online. Frequently before posting, it forwards to Ave Marie for prior input; not that they get it.
Review the complete AveWatch website. My experience is that the AveWatch people are acting the same way a very trustworthy man in Dallas, Ole Anthony, who continues at the age of 82 to investigate and highlight the misdeeds of evangelical preachers on TV and radio.
Mr. Gibson – Monaghan has basically built a neo-conservative empire:
at least four schools, Legatus (his association for big catholic business folks), his support of OSB, and other groups. In many ways belonging to a Monaghan organization is very similar to the Legionnaires of Christ/Regnum Christi and he behaves in many ways like Maciel (subtract the sexual abuse). His Ave Marie board consists of folks such as Egan, Maida, others – I wonder if they approve of all his machinations. He got a huge public positive review from Fr. Neuhaus (again, similar to Neuhaus’ statements for Maciel)
He gets rid of folks at his whim and faces a number of current lawsuits e.g. the town was built using the foundation money dedicated the Ave Marie University. Only 250 homes have been sold – about 30% of his goal.
It gives you a backroom view of how a poltical sensitive, rich, orthodox arrogant man can manipulate even the church. The local bishop should be praised for trying to put the brakes on Monaghan just as those bishops who have tried to regulate LC/RC activities and schools.
Fact – bishop will not allow Ave Marie to call itself “Catholic”….need we say more.
Patrick Hough: I recall reading some about the church design when it was unveiled, but I’ll have to do some googling to find out about the architect. I do believe it is intentionally designed to resemble a mitre, though not sure the rationale other than the obvious. I do recall being somewhat surprised by the original design–I think it was more like a glass version of the Oakland space egg cathedral, and I was intrigued, if not enraptured. I thought it bold, and I believe the design had to be modified (I’m reaching here in the memory) because of concerns over whether it was traditional or canonically correct.
(In any case, I prefer Alan Mitchell’s theory, though it makes my cholesterol count rise.)
Which gets to the point some made here, and on Pontifications where I also posted this–namely, calling Ave Maria “conservative” or “orthodox” or “traditional” or similar is problematic. In many respcts they are sui generis, as every such expermient can be, and they get as much flak from the right-wing as the instituional wing.
Peter V, I can’t vouch for AveMariaWatch, but I know they have been the source of many legit stories. Ave Maria and Monaghan are the source of much consternation–the closing or transfer or whatever of the law school in Michigan was a real mess. So you’ll have these watchdog groups. Take them for what they are worth.
I enjoyed your Aristotelian gloss–I tend to see these back-to-the-future enclavists thru an American lens, and even as they lay claim to recreating some past world, or preserving it in amber, I look at it more in terms of a perversion of the American Puritan experiment, or something like the various utopian communal experiments throughout our history. What do you think? They also come close to Peter Berger’s definition of fundamentalism as a fundamentally modern movement, which is creating something entirely new–in this case not a really Catholic phenomenon–under the guise of preserving the old.
Isn’t what Ave Maria is trying to do similar to what the pilgrims did? Maybe there’s something positive about it that we’re overlooking.
The so-called “sectarianism” of Ave Maria doesn’t bother me in itself. There are lots of groups, from the Trappists to the Amish, who might be called “sectarian” or “separatist” that I find quite admirable.
I’m more bothered by the fact that Monaghan seems to have little idea of what makes for an institution of higher learning and seems to think that he can run everything according to his passing whims.
The amount of hate on this thread is unbelievable. I can’t see myself joining this type of group but neither can I see myself joining a monastery or becoming a secluded hermit.
A bunch of right-wing Catholics voluntarily chose to associate with one another in a close-knit society as far away from you bitter liberals as possible. Isn’t that a dream for some of you?
For shame.
Hello Mark (and All),
“Isn’t what Ave Maria is trying to do similar to what the pilgrims did?”
I think you are exactly right. And speaking as someone who has openly admitted to my students that I would never want to teach at Ave Maria University or live in Ave Maria, I think the members of this community are simply exercising their rights as members of a liberal society. They are establishing a community that they believe gives them the best chance of living the lives they wish to live.
David’s original post described certain unexpected developments in the way Ave Maria is to be governed. One may disapprove of the particulars of this governance, but those doing the governing can respond that so long as there are no serious barriers to leaving Ave Maria, how their city is governed is their own business.
Hello David (and All),
“I look at it more in terms of a perversion of the American Puritan experiment, or something like the various utopian communal experiments throughout our history. What do you think?”
I agree with you as well. I think you and Mark would agree that those who are creating Ave Maria are pioneers. From what you both say, I think Mark is hopeful that the fruit this community will bear will be sweet, and you are worried that it will end up bitter. I worry that it will end up bitter myself. But as I tried to say in my response to Mark, I think those who are building Ave Maria are well within their rights. That does not mean that they should be exempt from being criticized for some of what they are doing.
David Gibson –
Like you I”m concerned that the super-conservatives seem to have captured the term “orthodox” as their own personal title to the exclusion of those who disagree with them. If the media buy into it and paint the rest of us as Monaghan’s sort of Catholic, we have no one to blame but ourselves.
There are in fact many meanings of :the orthodox” (noun): Among them:
1. those who accept as true everything every pope and bishop has ever said (in spite of the fact that they contradict each other)
2. those who accept what all popes and bishops in the most authoritative councils have taught
3. those who accept what recent popes have taught
4. those who accept only ex cathdra teachings, whether of pope or pope and bishops
5. those who accept the Bible as the word of God, the Nicene Creed and the teaching authority of the pope and bishops (whatever that is supposed to mean)
6. those who accept 5. plus the sensus communus (whatever that means).
And, of course, there are many Protestant meanings, largely involving various sorts of interpretations of the Bible.
That there are so many meanings does not imply to me that there are no constant teaching of Christ’s Church that we must subscribe to. But as I see it, those teachings we must accept the teachings (wors) whose meanings are the meanings intended by the HOly Spirit and it is the function mainly of the pope and bishops to find those meanings of the Holy Spirit as best they can.
At any rate, I think the topic needs an airing sometime.
Bill,
Outstanding review of OBS and sexual abuse. Why am I not surprised?
Levada’s record is a disgrace, never mind that he is now chief watchdog.
See http://www.sanfranmag.com/story/man-who-keeps-secrets
“The Man Who Keeps the Secrets
When San Francisco’s archbishop was called to Rome to become the church’s top cop, few were aware that William Levada has worked tirelessly throughout his career to protect sexual predator priests. Longtime church watcher Jason Berry tracks Levada and his spectacular promotion and asks: Why, by God, don’t the church’s top leaders get it?”
Clerical narcissism at its best, or worst. But really, who cares?
Oops –
Should read: But as i see it, the teachings we must accept are the teachings (verbal expressions) whose (meanings* are the meanings intended by the Holy Spirit . . . “
Hello All,
I second Ann’s “motion”. I think we could all profit from a discussion of what it means to be orthodox. However, such a discussion is bound to be very lengthy and tangential to this thread. So I think I should leave the “motion” for our moderators to consider.
I don’t think the church is in the shape of a bishop’s mitre–I think it is in the shape of the Ave Maria logo that Monaghan uses for all of his enterprises. Which is disturbing in a different way.
Jason Drakes–Yes, that would be far more distrubing to me. Anybody with any intell on the design feel free to weigh in.
The orthodoxy discussion would be a very good one; I’ll try to start a thread, maybe this weekend.
Peter V: You are right to say they are well within their rights to establish Ave Maria, but of course that’s not to say it is a good or right thing, on two levels: One concerns the constitution, and whether they are creating an enclave where certain constitutional rights do not exist. (Pretty much like the District of Columbia.) That, I think, is not kosher. Yes, residents are free to leave, but creating government-sanctioned bantustans where certain rights do not apply is problematic, to say the least. IMHO.
Like Jim Pauwels, I also react viscerally against Catholic isolationism, and in part because I think it not especially “Catholic.” There is certainly the fuga mundi (sp?) aspect of the monastic life, but this isn’t that. This is more a rejection of the Catholic Church in America today, which according to Monaghan has become soft and corrupt. In that sense they do have a Puritanical impulse, perhaps. But setting themselves up as the ideal and others as fallen does strike me as, well, neo-Donatist (I won’t invoke America’s use of Circumcellions, as I still can’t recall who they were). I think of Mel Gibson (no relation–damn) building his own parish. Catholicism isn’t a vanity project for the wealthy. So say I.
http://avewatch.com/?p=46
Jason, thanks. Fascinating. The thing still looks much more like a bishop’s mitre than a tombstone to me. But above all, it is the Monagahn brand. Well, at least he didn’t make it like a pizza box…
Another thing: I should do my own research, but my understanfding is that as an oratory this is not a parish church. Mass can be celbrated, but are their special restrictions? Just seems like an odd duck status.
I agree there’s some undue freakout over Ave Maria Town re how it will reflect on Catholicism in general.
Maybe one of our many lawyer dotCommonweal friends can weigh in here, but until that time, I’ll offer reasons why I think comparisons between AMT and my Amish in-laws aren’t exactly parallel.
1. Amish know when they join the church (in adulthood) exactly how the community is governed. The AMT homesteaders either didn’t read the fine print or the governance of the town was hidden from them. I’m not clear on this from the article.
2. The Amish (men only) select elders (again men only) who interpret the tradition, hire teachers, take up collections and administer funds for members who are ill, etc. Elders may retire, resign or get kicked out for immorality. In other words, there is some redress that allows the Amish to rid themselves of bad elders. There seems to be none in AMT.
3. There is an elected local government in Amish areas. The Amish could register to and vote in elections. They choose not to exercise that right. In AMT there isn’t any elected local government.
A fascinating question is how the AMT governors will maintain its Catholicity.
The Amish do it by shunning, perfectly legal if pig-headed and cruel.
As I recall from earlier reports about AMT, the plan was to somehow reward businesses that closed on Sunday, drugstores that didn’t sell condoms, etc. Does that mean they’ll collect fees at a lower rate from Catholic-compliant businesses?
To be fair, I think “tombstone” is kind of derogatory by avewatch–the design is a stained glass window. But the point is that the logo far preexisted the Florida chapel or tabernacle, for all the Ave Maria enterprises, like Ave Maria Law School, Ave Maria University, Ave Maria Radio, Ave Maria Mutual Funds, etc.
http://www.avemarialaw.edu/
http://avemaria.edu/
http://home.1360wwow.com/wp-content/uploads/111.jpg
http://www.avemariafund.com/
Notably, the flying butresses were later added to several logos after the chapel was designed, to make them match. Here’s the Ave Maria College/University’s logo in pre-chapel days.
http://www.campusexplorer.com/media/376×262/Ave-Maria-College-FAAF0E0D.png
Thanks, Mr. Drakes. Became obvious to me that David Gibson does not read responses. Your links and the section about where the arch style came from were in my thread on May 12th; 4:24 PM. Even the tabernacle, altar settings, etc. continue this theme.
Okay, let’s grant a few of the comparisons to the Puritans. It is a limping analogy at best because of the differing historical contexts; the Puritans traveld to another continent to establish their own church/state – would suggest that Monaghan and folks are trying to redefine catholicism in terms of their own biases, beliefs, etc.
If you know you Puritan history, their own excesses led to many changes, state imposition of laws regulating some of their extreme practices; we have the Salem Witch trials, etc. Some good; but a lot of fairly “sick” piety and religious expressions that controlled people.
Let’s use a different analogy – what would happen if Call to Action, WomenPriests, VOTF, Catholics in alliance for the common good had the desire and wherewithal to build a college or university and call it “pure” and “correct” catholicism. Would any bishop bless this?
None of you seem to pick up on the deeper issue – you have a personality that dictates how, when, where, and what is Ave Maria – literally a parallel church that they call “orthodox”, conservative, and traditional implying that all other catholics are less than that. The use and misuse of money; the promotion that they are right and others wrong and the impact via their promotional efforts (are they even honest? what happens to the naive or gullible family that buys into their “stuff”; makes a momentous decision to go to Ave Maria and are later tragically surprised and disappointed. Same goes for those who buy a home in his “ideal” city.
Is anyone beside Carolyn Disco concerned about the “alleged” (they seem fairly documented but I will phrase it this way) connections to power brokers, high church officials, OBS, The oratory mess highlighted a bishop trying to put the brakes on Monaghan. Not unlike Bishop O’Brien in DC trying to put some controls around Regnum Christi schools and the LCs.
Any time you have a group that revolves around a personality cult, you raise multiple red flags. Some of you equate their right to do this – no argument; some equate this to how earlier religious communities evolved? Now, your analogy is really being stretched. Communities are born and die all the time – the long lasting communities have marks that are easily described – founder who lives an exemplary life; a mission that clearly builds up the church or renews the church, society, etc. Do you honestly see that with Ave Marie?
One unfortunate holdover from JPII was his support for many different types of communities – he approved these using his papal powers or canon law but we are now seeing the impact of his personal decisions – e.g. Maciel. Bishops also have the power/authority to approve of local communities – we are again seeing efforts to better control and limit these types of groups – Miles Jesu; we already have the schismatic SSPX; other groups will eventually be scrutinized e.g. Priests for Life. Unfortunately, the USCCB has no control over local bishops’ decisions.
Would suggest that Ave Marie is very different from religious communities of the 17th, 18th, or even 19th century – his mission is to build a purer church via his definition, criteria, judgment, and control. Would suggest that every one of those points violates the spirit of the growth of the catholic church…..Monaghan is about the business of Monaghan; and self-aggrandizement because he is better and purer – it is about building an empire.
Jesus came to build a kingdom of peace not an empire of power. Is Ave Marie more like Rome or the catholic church at its best? Yes, it is a discussion about “orthodoxy”
Bill–thank you. I missed your prior mention of this too.
Jean, I think there are facts not in evidence regarding the Ave Maria Community. If it tried to claim status as a political jurisdiction, I am fairly certain it would be rejected. It sounds more like one of these really large resorts where people own condos and houses but there is no suggestion that the resort is itself a “town” or “city” that would hold governance elections. A condo association is another example.
However, most if not all states do set minimum governance requirements for condos and other homeowners’ associations, but the associations are often quite arbitrary and dictatorial in their operations. Their members are typically elected, however. I suspect it’s the minimum state standards for these kinds of private associations that have been waived. It is possible that such a waiver was illegal or ultra vires (i.e., an agency head can’t normally decide not to enforce a state statute), but it’s also possible that the statutory framework provides latitude to state officials. The opportunity to challenge it probably depends on these kinds of considerations.
I don’t see any suggestion that the Ave Maria homeowners would not be voting for county and other elected officials that are unquestionably part of a governmental unit. Not all governmental units require such elections, by the way, many are appointed by another elected body (hospital and sewer districts, for instance).
Bill DeHaas, I do like to read comments as time permits, and my apologies for not reading your comments more closely. I thought you were positing a hypothesis, and the links Jason provided seemd more authoritative.
But I’d still like to know from Monaghan what the shape represents–a stained-glass window? It is an odd shape, if so. I suppose it’s not so relevant. The point is that is is his logo, his brand. So it goes.
Barbara, thanks. I thought about condo associations and gated communities as analogies, too. But, as you noted, there is resident representation. True, there are locally appointed boards. But those boards are appointed by elected officials somewhere down the line. AMT goveernors weren’t appointed by any elected officials.
I didn’t mean to imply that AMT residents couldn’t vote in country, state or national elections.
IMHO, the broadest news value this story has is that it seems to be a whole new class of municipality, setting up a new kind of relationship between residents and governors, and one that, if deemed consitituional, could become a model for other types of communities.
I can see orthodoxy and its manifestations in communities like this a topic for Catholic discussion.
But, fellas, I don’t get the obsession with the shape of the church. The gothic arch appears inMonaghan’s other Ave Maria enterprises. I’ve seen ‘em thousands of times in my diocesan newspaper.
Clearly he wants to band his ventures with a shape that evokes a sense of history and traditionalism. It helps people understand what he’s about. Other Catholic institutions have similar logos or seals.
I don’t get what the big deal is.
“Isn’t what Ave Maria is trying to do similar to what the pilgrims did? Maybe there’s something positive about it that we’re overlooking.”
Mr. Proska –
No doubt you make a major point. However, greatt some of the values of the Puritans were, they were not uniformly great ones. Besides valuing reason (surprise!) and freedom of conscience *for themselves*, many of them did not tapprove the same freedom to people of other religions. They also left our general culture with a sexually repressive so-called Christian attitude, as well as a very unfortunate notion that it is the Saved who will prosper materially, lending some to believe that if they spent their lives pursuing money it would be a sign that they were saveed. So now we also have a strong money-grubbing strain in our general culture. No, not all Puritans agreed with all of this.
Also never forget — they also gave us witch hunts.
Ann–
First, thanks for calling me Mr. (though you don’t have to) and for saying I make a major point (that, you need to keep doing). I don’t necessarily disagree with anything you say. Further, I can understand people’s concern about Ave Maria Town. In the interests of full disclosure, I have made (small) donations to Ave Maria University because I fully support their attempt to establish a unapologetically Catholic university. That said, as our children have approached college age, Ave Maria hasn’t made the first cut. Monaghan’s penchant for erratic behavior, and perhaps some stepford-wife thinking there caused us some concern. (Bear in mind, the group-think and lack of diversity in thought at the typical university seems much worse to me).
But here’s the part I don’t understand, and it concerns me much more. Some people (think of the Bill Maher and Christopher Hitchens types) don’t just disagree with what Ave Maria is doing, they have a disgust for them that’s almost frightening. And there are many who feel as they do. Where does that level of vitriol come from? I can’t put my finger on it.
Speaking of vitriol, here is Ave Maria U’s own commencement speaker on Saturday–blasting Notre Dame’s commencement speaker this Sunday:
http://www.naplesnews.com/news/2009/may/09/ave-maria-u-commencement-speaker-rips-notre-dame-o/
I guess this is the Cardinal Newman Society’s ideal commencement. But you also realize it wouldn’t exist without Notre Dame. Sort of.
Hi Jean,
You asked how the shape of the church matters. One of the links above demonstrated that the shape is a branding device that helps Monahan sell products and gain profits. The church was actually designed to look like the advertising logo, not the other way around. This is raising a lot of red flags for people, because churches are not designed to sell products.
For me, I do think symbolism of church architecture is important, and this is such a weird example it does invite reflection. When I thought it was a bishop’s miter, I had a lot of theological problems with that. It’s a crackpot ecclesiology to put the nave of the church into a bishop’s miter. Now that I’ve learned it’s a stained glass window, I still think it’s thologically bizarre — a sort of Disneyland conception of church. A church is not a window! It’s a lot of things, but it’s not that.
Finally, it seems to me the choice of a Gothic arch is intentional. It is polemical. But it grieves me too. I have too much respect for the Gothic to see it carved up and used in such a way. It’s barbaric, to me. I can’t help but see it that way. Everything that traditional Catholicism opposes is on display here — supposedly by a champion of traditional Catholicism!
It is clear to me what inspired the design of the church, and I don’t see what all the fuss is about.
David–
I’ve served with vitriol. I know vitriol. Vitriol is a friend of mine. David, that commencement speech is no vitriol. The strongest thing I saw was that, as a gynecologist, the speaker felt that the Obama administration had him in the crosshairs. Given Obama’s professed support for FOCA (which, to my knowledge, he’s never recanted), who can blame him for feeling that way? In fact I found this from the doctor’s address quite moving:
“When God wants something done, He doesn’t dispatch a legion of avenging angels … He sends a baby – and then He waits,”
I bet the graduates did too.
Lrt us remember the Watergate mantra ‘Follow the money’? We would do well to always suspect ‘big money’ whether left or right.. progressive or traditional and this is not ‘class war’ as ‘they’ always say. My son is researching how to get back for a family, 12 million the Legionaries scammed in inheritance out of a lonely old lady.[not distributed yet] that was their modus operandi….Just like the Gospel says Visit the sick.. Legionaries modified it slightly…only rich sick..no doubt they ‘promised’ her salvation…
Big Money always has strings attached….follow the strings..
First, it is not a “catholic” university except by its own declaration. Here is a link to the on-going dispute between the local bishop and his assigned chaplain and the university and its “campus minister” priest, Robert Garrity: http://www.naplesnews.com/news/2008/apr/13/ave-maria-oratory-deal-leaves-power-unclear/
If you read Mr. Gibson’s post on the commencement activities – you do not see that the actual oratory chaplain, Rev. Tatman, is involved at all???
Agree – follow the money. Everyone likes the nice, neat rags-to-riches story of Monaghan and his pizza millions but that does not qualify him as an expert, orthodox, conservative, or traditional catholic. He seems to make up his own rules as he goes along.
Hello All,
I must admit my own views about the Ave Maria enterprise are terribly mixed. Like David and Jim, I think it’s decidedly un-Catholic to shun the rest of your fellow Catholics, and at the risk of being uncharitable I think that is what the builders of Ave Maria are doing. However, they are also trying to create a university and a surrounding community that they believe will preserve and protect authentic Catholic teaching, and perhaps they are right to some extent.
Maybe the way to evaluate this project over time (and Lord knows philosophers like me do a lot of evaluating) is to see to what extent Ave Maria develops in cooperation with its local bishop. Some here have already expressed concern that this seems to be the vanity project of a single individual. If that’s right, I would agree we all have reason to be concerned. But maybe that isn’t right. Ave Maria University advertises itself as an institution that is faithful to the magisterium. Is the university seeking the guidance of its local bishop? Or is it developing more independently according to its own interpretation of what the magisterium teaches? Or is it developing mainly under the guidance of those who are financing this enterprise?
Hello Bill (and All),
You may have provided some answers to my questions in your previous post. I’ll look forward to studying the information you provide.
David Nichol, you really could have another career as a comedian. Thanks for the visual joke!
Mark Proska, are you being ironic, or did you really find the statement you cite moving? Do you really think the intervention of the Almighty in human affairs is limited to “sending babies”?
Peter–
“Maybe the way to evaluate this project over time (and Lord knows philosophers like me do a lot of evaluating) is to see to what extent Ave Maria develops in cooperation with its local bishop.”
Excellent point. The only thing I’d add is that sometimes, even if the original motivation is not the purest, the Holy Spirit has a way of taking over, making all things new.
Rita–
Sometimes my posts are a bit tongue-in-cheek, but I was being completely candid. In fact, I do not understand how anyone could not be moved by the statement. Sometimes I’m astounded by how differently 2 people can react to the same statement. Just goes to show you, I suppose.
No, I do not think the Almighty’s actions are “limited” to sending babies, but I don’t think that is at all what the speaker was implying.
“The strongest thing I saw was that, as a gynecologist, the speaker felt that the Obama administration had him in the crosshairs.”
I suppose that is a reference to conscience protection. I don’t see it as vitriolic. I did think it was over the top to refer to President Obama as “vicious”. I have to admit I don’t understand the comparison to an unnamed Resurrection-denying priest.
The quote that you found so moving goes down a road that drives me completely crazy. God can “send a baby” as the answer to a long term problem (one powerful dude) but he can’t or won’t make sure it’s born (just what kind of all-powerful God are we talking about here)?
Does God protect babies from abuse or getting sick and dying but not abortion? Does that mean we should accept the death of young children as God’s way of telling us they weren’t destined to do great things?
It’s superficially appealing but it’s theologically incoherent.
Hi, Rita,
I see your point, but I think the more clearly Monaghan’s brand is recognized–whether in architecture, on his college seals, stationery, etc.–the easier it is for people to identify and avoid him if they wish. Even if it means co-opting the Gothic arch, which, after all, is not a copyrighted image, or approving bad church architecture.
Frankly, I don’t think Monaghan is motivated by making money (though can’t speak for his partners). He’s already a billionaire.
He seems to be trying to further the faith as he understands it on his own terms, in his own way. The kind of CEO mentality he brings to the effort strikes people as eccentric and goofy, or inspired and visionary, depending on their POV.
On the larger world stage, however, Monaghan is a light weight. Jerry Falwell, Billy Graham, the Ayatolla Khomeini, Pat Robertson, Bishop Desmond Tutu, Pope John Paul II, Aimee Semple McPherson, Joseph Smith and Dr. Martin Luther King were/are religious figures who have wielded far more influence and attention than Monaghan.
… though I should note that David Nickol is wrong about the inspiration for the design.
It’s clearly meant to look like those useless jar-lid loosener things that we older people purchase that don’t work worth a damn. I wondered why I felt the urge to curse and demand my money back when I saw the picture David G. posted at the top of the thread.
The original plier building: http://www.wellscathedral.org.uk/history/presentbuilding/originalbuilding.shtml
“On the larger world stage, however, Monaghan is a light weight. Jerry Falwell, Billy Graham, the Ayatolla Khomeini, Pat Robertson, Bishop Desmond Tutu, Pope John Paul II, Aimee Semple McPherson, Joseph Smith and Dr. Martin Luther King were/are religious figures who have wielded far more influence and attention than Monaghan.”
It’s an interesting point. I’d say that Monaghan isn’t a religious leader per se … he’s more of a bankroller. He’s like one of those behind-the-scenes big-money guys in a Frank Capra movie.
Personally, I wish he spent less on the alternative-universe Catholic culture stuff, and more on solving AIDS in Africa, or hunger in Somalia. (And maybe he gives a fortune to those causes, too, and I’m just not aware of it). Still, there are a lot of streams of spirituality, and I don’t see that it hurts me or anyone else that he goes off on these quixotic quests.
I don’t mean to sound vitriolic, butAve Maria town sounds a little creepy to me, and from what I’ve read, also a danger to the enironment of the everglades and the habitat of the endangered Florida panther …. Is Florida Just One New Development Away From Environmental Ruin?
Jim said: Personally, I wish he spent less on the alternative-universe Catholic culture stuff, and more on solving AIDS in Africa, or hunger in Somalia. (And maybe he gives a fortune to those causes, too, and I’m just not aware of it). Still, there are a lot of streams of spirituality, and I don’t see that it hurts me or anyone else that he goes off on these quixotic quests.
Jean replies: You know, I think Monaghan comes in for some undue criticism there. Yes, it would be nice if he spent is money more visibly, like the Gateses. But I know people who work for Domino’s Corporate. They have excellent benefits, a generous maternity AND paternity leave, and employees receive a hefty bonus if they adopt a child. And I mean hefty.
I doubt the pizza delivery kid is plugged into those types of bene’s, but Monaghan has put his money where his mouth is with his corporate people.
Many interesting thoughts I wish I could respond to here, but deadlines beckon, so maybe later. Couple things–I wouldn’t question Monaghan’s faith or practice, as it may be quirky (to me) more than fitting into any particular category. The isolationism irks me, but that’s my personal opinion, not a defined truth or condemnation of him. The part that irks me is his view that his version of Catolicism is normative and ours, well, much les so.
Also importnat to note that he sold Domino’s in 1998, more thana decade ago, and has been spending furiously and philanthropically since. His goal is to die poor, and he may.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tom_Monaghan
I also found a link to a story I wrote on Ave Maria a few years ago for The Tablet:
http://www.thetablet.co.uk/article/6959
One aspect of this Catholic “enclave: that really seems out of touch to me is the lack of any kind of social justice dimension. To wit:
And from my draft, a graf that got cut from the segment cited above:
Then again, that was 2006 (I think). Perhaps the economy Ave Maria relied on to work may come back to bite it. Some religious community could make a great monastery out of it…
I think AMT is a bit misguided but I don’t get nearly as worked up about it as others. I’ve read enough interviews with Monaghan to know that he is not a bigot, his wife isn’t even Catholic, but that in some real sense he is trying to create a kind of Catholic oasis that he believes sustained him when his mother could not or would not care for him as a child. His vision of a caring Catholic community bears striking resemblance to the orphanage where he was kindly but strictly nurtured by nuns with unquestioning fidelity to Catholic norms. He grew up and earned the kind of money that let him try to recreate it on a grand vision. I doubt his specific vision will outlive him, but I guess I don’t see a big problem with letting him try. It’s like a Catholic version of Neverland.