Survey question
March 18, 2009, 10:25 am
Posted by Margaret O'Brien Steinfels
Have you seen an ordinary American rise up in rage at the AIG bonus fiasco?
Over the last several days, I have read in the newspaper of record and heard on TV, the phrase “populist rage,” “angry Americans,” and here “the fury of ordinary Americans bubble up” from Ms. Dowd, vis a vis AIG and the bonuses. I don’t doubt that many are shocked at the chutzpah of these financial racketeers, but this morning on the subway, the usual thoughtful and knowledgable crowd was attending to their prayers, the sports page, the kid in the over-sized stroller; no enragement, no talk of AIG.
Has anyone here actually spotted an American foaming at the mouth over AIG? Please report in!
Peggy, everyone is angry about this. Maybe it is getting tiresome for some as the story has been around for awhile, about previous bonuses and payouts before bankruptcy and such. Most people have lost half their pensions and half of thier investments. This is why the White House is reacting. They read the polls all the time.
Bill, I understood Peggy’s point not to contest that people are angry, even morally outraged, but only to contest myopic and hyperbolic media descriptions that conjure images of torch-bearing, rifle-shooting citizens about to storm the Bastille, or at least the AIG building. No?
Stephen Colbert (who hates to be behind the curve) was trying to organize a mob Monday night — he even had a pitchfork!
Did anyone watch John Stewart last night? John Oliver had a report form the Saint Patrick’s Day parade of the anger over AIG.
If Charles Grassley were an ordinary American, you’d surely have demonstrable outrage.
Sure, Americans are angry about this, but… sure this issue is being politicized(like almost everything in Washington, except Hatch/Kennedy -I hope.)
Who is it that inserted language into the stimulus package that authorized and protected the AIG bonuses? Could it be the BK, Barney Frank…?
No mobs on the horizon. But, AIG just put its two Manhattan buildings on the market. And the CEO has asked his folks to return their bonuses.
No mobs here in our quiet suburb, either, but I noticed yesterday that moveon.org was pushing –in a mildly foamy e-mail– for a message to Washington about the AIG mess. “Colbert” has some interesting bedfellows, it would seem.
A few years ago I was speaking to a rich Iranian expatriot from the Shaw’s regime. At the time there was a government scandal of some kind and he was worried that people will revolt. I assured him that Americans do not feel that way. Most people even minorities feel that with work and applying themselves with their skills they can do well here. People are extremely angry about this, people with money like doctors and non-financial executives. They still have resources and know that while the American dream took a nasty hit matters can be overcome and eventually prosper. So no storming of the Bastile but Wall St and banks will not regain credibility as quickly as Johnson and Johnson did with the Tylenol scare. And we know that if the Democrats screw up we can vote them out, as early as two years.
This is America. A very angry America for sure. But as one black American, who just left the Communist party and was still dissatisfied with race in America, told me at Fordham in 1952: “This is still the greatest country in the world.”
I will look at Stewart tivoed tonight.
My underlying curiosity is: is this essentially an inside the beltway rage loop? From the media quoting unknown Americans, to the media being a little enraged itself, to Tim Geithner’s so-far hapless performance (at least as far as the media is concerned), to letting Henry Paulson get away before the pillars started falling, to Obama and Summers trying “to get in front of this” (as David Leonhardt said the morning), to the media quoting unknown Americans? Well you get the idea.
Here’s a TPM headline: “Tidal Wave of Rage: Lawmakers sound off on AIG bonuses fiasco.
“Lawmakers from both parties expressed fury over the company’s behavior. For the American public, AIG now stands for “arrogance, incompetence and greed,” said Rep. Paul Hodes, D-N.H.”
Weren’t these the guys who agreed to this in the first instance? Hmmmm!
http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/news/2009/03/aig_head_shares_us_anger_of_bonuses_but_backs_them_1.php?ref=fp2
Peggy, I think there is real anger aplenty out there. But things are so bad the people hurt most don’t have the leisure to lose their cool. The tendency of politicians to call on unknown Americans as an imaginary “Amen chorus” was noticeable throughout the election campaign. Rememebr Joe the Plumber? It became a joke soon enough. Wonderful the way rhetorical silliness subverts itself.
Rachel Maddow, Keith Olberman, Chris Matthews …. oops, you said ORDINARY Americans.
Nope, most of them are just lethargic pew potatoes. If they aren’t directly inconvenienced, then it is too bad, but …. gimme another latte, OK?
“’Lawmakers from both parties expressed fury over the company’s behavior. For the American public, AIG now stands for ‘arrogance, incompetence and greed,’ said Rep. Paul Hodes, D-N.H.”
Yesterday I received an email (the first ever) from my congressman–a broadcast email that I assume went to many constituents–in which he expressed his outrage at the AIG bonuses, and to which he appended a copy of his letter to the Secretary of the Treasury that also expressed his anger about the bonuses. My reaction was the same as Peggy’s: “Weren’t these the guys who agreed to this in the first instance? Hmmmm!” Who says politicians aren’t attuned to the pulse of the electorate? ;)
Here’s a piece of the outrage loop from Politico, itself part of the loop.
“If this were just a usual case of politicians acting like phonies people could roll their eyes and move on. But this time the competition among politicians to outdo each other in the outrage derby will soon put the White House, Congress and the country in a very tough spot.
….
“This puts Washington in danger zone. You have a woefully understaffed Treasury Department, headed by one of the architects of the original AIG bailout deciding the company’s fate. You have a company that needs government backing to survive privately and publicly arguing that if the company is allowed to collapse, the entire economy will follow. And you have reporters, this one included, who at best have a surface understanding of the complexity of the AIG debacle trying to explain it all.”
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0309/20108.html
I did have an over-the-cube-wall conversation at work today with someone who, while not exactly flecking foam, is outraged over the bonuses. He instigated the conversation. So that’s one.
Also – given that nobody in Washington folds their laundry without taking a poll first, I’m assuming the pollsters are busily and merrily employed in measuring the breadth and depth of the outrage.
I’m outraged. But I’m so exhausted by it that I’m hardly “rising up.”
Plus I have the sneaking suspicion that if it is criminal for them to pay out bonuses that big after a government bailout, it was probably criminal to pay them out for the last ten years, while they were running their own operation into the ground.
I feel like my own rage — much like the media’s — is just too damn little, too damn late.
Okay, I just watched “The Daily Show,” from 3/17, and John Oliver’s in-depth interviews about AIG bonuses with on-lookers at the St. P Day’s Parade. Fortunatey for him, they were all so drunk, they didn’t realize he was in Englishman! I don’t think we will get a lot of illumination here.
Has anybody but me noticed that some people are driving truly crazily these days? I’ve put it down to aggression due to thevmeltdown. I narrowly averted two serious accidents in the last two days alone but only because my reflexes rain excellent.
Be careful out there.
As luck would have it, I happened to be at home today cleaning and the tv was on in the background.
The chair of AIF, Edward Liddy was testifying before congress. I listened to some of the proceedings. The pink protestors were in the gallery with signs that read “crooks”. They were required be security to remove them.
congressman Frank requested the names from Mr. Liddy of all the executives who received bonuses. Mr. Liddy replied that he would comply provided he could have assurances of confidentiality. He said that there have been e-mails and death threats given to the company. Not only of executives but of their families.
Mr. Frank said that he was not prepared to acede to restrictions of confidentiality. In his opinion, he wanted the names without restriction and if necessary would seek subpoenas. Mr. Liddy replied that he would like to comply but was concerned about safety.
The question was raised again by another congressman and Mr. Liddy repeated hs concern and read some of the e-mails received. They were along the lines of “you should be strangled with piano wire – not only you but your entire family. If the government doesn’t do it – I will.” That was just one of a sample.
I meant AIG of course.
It also seems that the Federal Reserve was aware that these retention bonuses were going to be given.
It was discussed months ago. In these meetings, all parties were well aware of how this would appear. Nonetheless, Liddy supported the decision to grant retention bonuses (for reasons he outlined), and apparently, nobody from the Federal Reserve indicated disagreement.
You can be sure that those congresspersons will be surprised and outraged if someone’s family member is kidnapped or garotted with piano wire.
“I don’t think we will get a lot of illumination here.”
Sorry if I misled you on this score – I just thought it was a funny piece. FWIW, nobody in the piece seemed to give two figs about AIG.
I believe it was Chis Dodd who inserted the authorizing language into the the stimulus package. See below.
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/first100days/2009/03/18/sen-dodd-admits-adding-bonus-provision-stimulus-package/
“Americans aren’t worried about Washington. They’re worried about where to park their cars”. W. Rogers
GA: I would like to agree with that.