When did you become white?
The news that the birth of “white” babies has fallen below 50 percent has created quite a media stir. Watching the Newshour last night I kept wondering if Ray Suarez, he of Puerto Rican descent, thought he was white or not white? A completely muddled discussion went on about how the U.S. was going to respond to this new factoid.
A little study of American immigrant history demonstrates that many of our immigrant forebears only became white as time passed: Irish, Italians, Jews, and Poles were not white when they landed on these shores. In fact, the Irish were often regarded as sub-human and portrayed with simian features (See cartoons by Thomas Nast).
Juan Cole gives a brief history of being and becoming white. Read it Ray!
UPDATE: Apologies: Margaret Warner did that segment according to the video. Sure looked like Ray Suarez on my TV…..
I don’t remember when I became white, but I do remember when I began to suspect that I might be African-American.
One evening about 20 years ago, I was walking down a crowded Bourbon Street in New Orleans when further down the street came the sound of gunfire. The crowd was about half white tourists and half African-American. The white tourists to a man ran towards the gunfire to see what was going on and the African-Americans and I ran away from the gunfire, which seemed like the more sensible thing to do.
Margaret, thanks for posting Juan Cole’s article. I had similar thoughts when I heard the “news,” wondering whether we are now defining Hispanics, Arabs, and those from the Indian subcontinent as “non-white,” and “white” more narrowly as WASPs or those whose families have assimilated away from the country of origin, say fourth generation.
Moreover, I think “white” is becoming as much a psychological construction as an ethnic fact. We have a friend who has a Chippewa ancestor so distant that he does not qualify for tribal membership (which is, I believe, only 1/32nd). None of his family remembers anything about being Native American, but he has studied up on it, adopted some aspects of the Chippewa view of life, and now self-identifies as Native American and talks about “you white people.”
I sympathize with him some days. At a time when “white” seems to be associated with a certain kind of sanctimonious sense of entitlement and lack of interest in one’s heritage, I don’t want to be “white” some days, either.
I think what the “news” about “white” people now being in a minority DOES say is that we are still deeply obsessed with race and ethnicity in this country.
Two brilliant, and riveting, anecdotes.
Another anecdote: My Japanese neighbor and I once complained to our Super about a leak from our apartment into hers. The Super was Cuban of Spanish descent. He addressed out complaint thus: “You White people are always complaining.”
Naturally we White people stood our ground though without guns.
In 2000 I was in a bakery when the headline news was that Sen. Lieberman had been chosen as Al Gore’s running mate. Another customer commented that it was still further proof that whites were in danger as non-whites took over more and more positions. Never mind that he was far darker than the Senator….
Moreover, Catholic immigrants such as the Irish, the Poles and the Italians were either not considered white when they first came or were denoted as a lesser category of white.
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Denoted by whom? Not by the United State Census. The Irish immigrants are listed as white in the 1860 census. As are Italian and Polish immigrants.
Perhaps Cole is exaggerating to make a point?
Jay P. Dolan’s The Irish Americans is a good source of information about the various groups of Irish immigrants.
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B004G0947U/ref=rdr_ext_tmb
Ancestry.com is great.
Family Tree DNA is great.
https://www.familytreedna.com/login.aspx?ReturnUrl=%2fmy-ftdna%2ffamily-finder-details.aspx
(There you’ll find your deepest roots in Africa. We’re all the children of Amma. She was black and furry and tenacious.)
I missed Ray Suarez on the topic, but Margaret Warner’s piece, I thought, hit on some of the same salient points.
http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/social_issues/jan-june12/minoritybirths_05-17.html
Wow! She is white.
Amazing it was Ray on my TV. Or was I eating too much pork and broccoli in Szechuan sauce?
This raises the question: Is Szechuan sauce now part of White cuisine…or does it remain Chinese? My Irish relatives when they were not yet White wouldn’t have touched it.
I remember reading this some years ago:
http://www.amazon.com/Irish-Became-White-Noel-Ignatiev/dp/0415918251
“Ignatiev traces the tattered history of Irish and African-American relations, revealing how the Irish used labor unions, the Catholic Church and the Democratic party to succeed in American. He uncovers the roots of conflict between Irish-Americans and African-Americans and draws a powerful connection between the embracing of white supremacy and Irish “success” in 19th century American society.”
Given my four Irish-born grandparents, it was a somewhat painful read.
I hope America evolves into something vaguely Latin-fusion. Like the Bronx, but bigger.
Henry Lewis Gates, Jr., the Harvard professor whose shows on PBS have traced the origins of several prominent African-Americans, had his own DNA analyzed as well. In our current categories, Dr. Gates would usually be described as a light-skinned African-American. But analysis shows that he has a significant strain of Irish ancestry and is possibly descended from an Irish king called Niall of the Nine Hostages.
http://www.yourgeneticgenealogist.com/2012/04/finding-your-roots-with-henry-louis_30.html
Someday our fascination with superficial and misleading traits like race may end, but probably not soon.
Hi, John:
I love Henry Louis Gates’s shows. (And, as a proud member of the T2 haplogroup, I’m related to him. And to Jesse James.)
I thought it was funny on the show when he went to Ireland, looking for Grandpa Niall. (Just like Genghis Khan, Niall has many many thousands of descendants living today. (It’s good to be king.) Gates kept saying Nile of the Nine Hostages, even though the Irish scholar who was showing him around pronounced it correctly.
Gates is half white, as he mentions frequently. I think it’s particularly moving when one of his guests discovers something NOT painful in their ancestors’ stories: a free woman or man of color, e.g., who made good; a former slave who lived as husband or wife with a white person and was buried beside the spouse; in Chris Rock’s case, the enlistment papers of an ancestor who fought with the U. S. Colored Troops; etc., etc.
http://www.pbs.org/wnet/aalives/profiles/rock.html
Margaret: maybe your neighbor was white Japanese.
I remember the Gates’ segment John Prior refers to.
As I recall, Gates seemed horrified to learn he was half “white.” I suppose any African American whose family went back to slave times would be horrified because it usually meant rape or coercion of one’s female ancestors.
Anyhow, Gates went to Ireland to proclaim his roots there, hoping, I guess, to see if the Irish would be freaked out about it. As far as I could see, the Irish reacted to him as they would any American of any color who claims kinship–from disinterest to utter scorn.
I have found Nuala O’Faolain’s books to be interesting guides to the rather testy relationship between Irish-Americans and the Irish.
Gerelyn,
Taking it back a bit further, I’m delighted to be a relative of spiders, earthworms, and daffodils, although I hope the family resemblance is not too obvious.
Ray Suarez did the Joe Ricketts-Jeremiah Wright fiasco story. And I admit that as I watched it, I was trying to discern his race/ethnicity.
Jean Raber ” rather testy relationship between Irish-Americans and the Irish.’
My American born father resented being called ‘narrow back’ by his Irishborn Bronx co-workers. Also a Dublin priest told me how the Irish secretly smile at American Irish boasts about being Irish, instead thinking quietly ‘you came from weak stock.. those not able to make it here in Ireland , during hard times’
JP: I believe you, but I still have in my mind’s eye Ray talking to a white guy from Brookings and a non-white, white Latino professor from?? California??.
I was amazed that the obvious wasn’t raised: how come so many white people don’t count as white? Aren’t immigrants from India Caucasians? And Turks Aryans? Not that I think white is anything to brag about.
As I recall, Gates seemed horrified to learn he was half “white.”
Disagree. He seemed delighted, and he continues to talk (proudly) about it on his shows. His recent revelations to guests on his show, including the men in the Cambridge barber shop, focus on just how black, how white, and how “Asian” (American Indian) they are. If he was “horrified”, why would he do it to others? Plus, his father is so obviously mostly white, that Jr. could not have been flabbergasted to learn of his Irish roots.
I suppose any African American whose family went back to slave times would be horrified because it usually meant rape or coercion of one’s female ancestors.
Yes, the pain of learning about ancestors’ suffering is deep and real. (I was saddened to learn of an ancestor who was beheaded.) However, in some cases, including Gates’s, the pain is slightly mitigated by knowing that the raped foremother did well in spite of the attacks. She owned a boarding house or something, maybe given to her by her white exploiter, and her descendants, including Gates Sr. and Jr., have done well.
Anyhow, Gates went to Ireland to proclaim his roots there, hoping, I guess, to see if the Irish would be freaked out about it. As far as I could see, the Irish reacted to him as they would any American of any color who claims kinship–from disinterest to utter scorn.
Disagree. He went for the same reason other Irish-Americans, including President Obama, go: “I’m here to find my roots.” http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/story?id=8195564
“I’m descended from a white man, he says. “A white man who slept with a black slave. And we know from the analysis of my DNA that … goes back to Ireland. So maybe you can help me.”
There was no “scorn”. He was welcomed with typical Irish hospitality.
I have found Nuala O’Faolain’s books to be interesting guides to the rather testy relationship between Irish-Americans and the Irish.
I haven’t noticed that in her books, although they provide interesting information about how abusive Irish parents and teachers were. Her obituary: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/obituaries/1947295/Nuala-OFaolain.html
I think the notion of “whiteness” as far as it means acceptable is also a generational thing. My folks were very progressive for their (WW2) generation regarding race, applauded the Civil Rights movement etc., but nonetheless they and would unashamedly have classified Asians as being “yellow”. Their generation had a white, black, red and yellow skin color (race) categories, which I always found odd.
I know lots Asians and Native Americans, and I do not find Japanese or Chinese to be “yellow” at all, and few Native Americans could reasonably be called “red”.
They even had a children’s song back then about how Jesus loves the little Children of the world; “ . . . Yellow, red and black and white, all are precious in His sight . . .” Nice song and intent, but the lyrics – ugh.
Folks younger than me would be hard pressed (in CA anyway) to strictly delineate who is “white”. What does one do with (how to categorize) a darker-than-usual German a Romanian or someone of Gypsy stock? What does one do with a light-skinned Mexican or Persian? Greeks have been in the news (on TV) lately, as the founders of Western Civilization, are they white? What about Egyptians? Most Argentines are not “Moreno” and in short, people simply do not fit into the neat boxes set up by North American WASPs back in the 1800’s.
And so while people still try to denote race & ethnicity (e.g. most recently, how Zimmerman in FLA was described as “White Hispanic”, and some senator claiming to be 1/60 part Native American or something like that), thankfully, most of that “yellow-red-black-white” nonsense has been dropped.
“ . . . possibly descended from an Irish king called Niall of the Nine Hostages. . . .”
That line reminds of when the internet was new, and some ancestry web sites were popular. My mom’s aunt Anastasia (who was then in her mid-90’s) was a very witty and spry lady of 100% red headed Irish stock; her grandparents came from Ireland in the mid-1800’s.
Anyway, I mentioned to her that my brother had found an ancestry website and was interested in tracing family roots. She tossed her head back laughed “Oh God – what does he think he will find? Does he think we are Irish royalty?” I mentioned family trees and such, which made her laugh all the harder – to the point of coughing and needing a glass of water – and said she could tell him he would likely find drunks or thieves – ha, ha! That was a hilarious moment – for both of us.
Ancestors – and fun/nice memories – and humor across the generations – are all very important.
:-)
“Is Szechuan sauce now part of White cuisine…or does it remain Chinese? ”
You live on the East Coast and, therefore, should know that it is Jewish cuisine.
“Disagree.”
What a surprise.
However, perhaps my and Gerelyn’s different memories about Dr. Gates’ view of his Irish roots illustrates that we see what we want to, at least in my case. I loathe the way my mother’s Irish family extolls its Irishness and uses it to excuse drunkenness, lying, in-fighting, sentimentality, racist comments, and abuse. “Typical Irish hospitality” in my family is when they offer you a beer before they tie into you.
Margaret. That’s okay, a lot of people mix Ray and Margaret up, to say nothing of Gwen and Judy and of course Hari…all so white.
Jimmy Mac: not Jewish with pork….or is it different on the other coast.
jbruns: you’re so white…I mean right.
Jean, Gates’s words on his various shows and in various articles do not substantiate your notion that he “seemed horrified to learn he was half ‘white’”.
E.g.:
Before the screening, Gates told us the story of how he was bitten by the genealogy bug as a 9-year-old boy after the 1960 funeral of his grandfather Edward St. Lawrence Gates. He said he was struck by how pale his light-skinned granddad appeared in the casket, and it made him curious to know more about how he got that way.
“The next day I got a composition book, and I interviewed my parents in front of the TV about their family tree,” Gates said. “That night Daddy showed me a picture of our oldest ancestor, Jane Gates, who was a slave born in 1819, and she died in 1888. I have been addicted to genealogy ever since.” Years later while researching his first genealogy series, African American Lives, Gates was able to confirm through DNA analysis that his grandfather’s heritage included Irish ancestry.
http://www.theroot.com/views/finding-your-roots-pbs-gates-interview
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And, his current project:
http://times-news.com/local/x1561260872/Harvard-professor-Piedmont-native-hoping-to-solve-family-mystery
CUMBERLAND — Harvard University Professor Henry Louis “Skip” Gates Jr. is asking all residents of Allegany County who are of Irish descent to get their DNA tested to help solve a 150-year-old family mystery — who is Gates’ great-great grandfather?
Through genealogical records, the Gates family history can be traced back to Jane Gates, a slave who lived on Greene Street. Jane, who was born in 1819, had five children and took the name and identity of their father with her to the grave, according to Gates.
“All Jane told the kids was that they all had the same father,” said Gates in a phone interview with the Times-News. “I have a picture of Jane Gates and her sons and they all look white, including my great-grandfather, Edward Gates, who was born December 1857 in (Allegany County) Maryland. I’m looking to find my great-great-grandfather and I hope to find him using DNA analysis.”
Gates believes that one of the descendants of Niall of Nine Hostages fathered all five of Jane’s children.
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“On my paternal line, in other words, we are as Irish as Irish can get,” writes Gates in The Root.
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Not all cases of mixed-race children involved force. In the New Orleans region there was a social system which was sort of a polygamy — the white father would have a white family and a mixed-race family. True, the black mistress had no choice, but the fathers were expected to support boh families and give some sort of education to their sons at least. A few were even sent to France to be educated.
One of my ancestors abandoned his white family and went to live with the mixed race one. My grandfather had a great uncle who had a black mistress with whom he had some kids. He wanted to marry her here, bu couldn’t legally. So they went to France and were married there. Then they went to live on the East Coast. One of their descendents came to New Orleans not long ago to find the whole story. He talked to my cousin about it. Said he realized there was a back story, and wasn’t surprised to hear it.
“how come so many white people don’t count as white? Aren’t immigrants from India Caucasians? ”
For purposes of checking boxes on forms, Indians are “Asian”. I just found that out; I had an Indian client I was helping fill out an application for a mortgagee modification. At the very end of the application, it asked for “Race”. There was no box for “Indian”. One could “Choose Not To Respond”, but we would have then had to start the form over and change other things. “Maybe I’m Black?” said the client. I said “You can put down whatever you want, but I don’t think you’re Black. Maybe White?” He understandably didn’t want to be “Other”, who does? We had to Google it to learn his race was “Asian”.
But, oddly, on another form, while you only have about 8 choices altogether, “Native Hawaiian” is one option. With all the diversity in the world, I wouldn’t have thought Native Hawaiian would have made the top 8, at least volume-wise.
Gates seems happy with his identity as a dignified, well-educated black man raised in middle-class black culture, and nothing I’ve seen on his programs indicates to me that he was delighted to learn he was half white Irish, descendent of King Niall or no.
The broader point in all this is that in the U.S., where most of us are the products of many races and ethnicities, ethnicity is as much a choice as a fact. I think that’s very interesting, particularly in light of European countries which are dealing less successfully with immigrants and populations of immigrants from former colonies in Africa, Asia, or the Caribbean.
For instance, German resistance to naturalizing Turks or dictating what names can be given to babies born in Germany seems like much ado about nothing to us.
While it may take several more decades, the artificial distinctions that race and ethnicity impose on people will likely become a thing of the past, and IMO it can’t happen soon enough. A recent Pew Forum study found the following:
“About 15% of all new marriages in the United States in 2010 were between spouses of a different race or ethnicity from one another, more than double the share in 1980 (6.7%). Among all newlyweds in 2010, 9% of whites, 17% of blacks, 26% of Hispanics and 28% of Asians married out. Looking at all married couples in 2010, regardless of when they married, the share of intermarriages reached an all-time high of 8.4%. In 1980, that share was just 3.2%.”
http://www.pewsocialtrends.org/2012/02/16/the-rise-of-intermarriage/
The current 15% rate can only accelerate as there are more and more mixed race children born of such intermarriages. In relatively short order, descriptions such “as I’m half Irish and half Chinese” will fade into descriptions that “I’m 1/8th this and 1/8th that, etc.,” and people will hopefully finally see the inanity of describing themselves as anything other than as a member of the human race.
“… and people will hopefully finally see the inanity of describing themselves as anything other than as a member of the human race.”
Do we lose anything when people ignore ethnic identity? Just askin’.
Gates seems happy with his identity as a dignified, well-educated black man raised in middle-class black culture, and nothing I’ve seen on his programs indicates to me that he was delighted to learn he was half white Irish, descendent of King Niall or no.
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Agree that he’s happy with his position at Harvard. I was glad he agreed with Summers’ decision to fire Cornel West.
As to his being delighted to discover his Irish roots? I think the fact that he’s made a second career of genealogy makes that obvious, as does the pride and pleasure on his face when he repeatedly recounts the story of Jane Gates.
“You notice patterns,” he says. “White guests often are mortified — that word again — when they learn their ancestors owned slaves. But I’ve never had a black guest who was upset to learn about white ancestry that probably involved forced sexual relations.”
Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/entertainment/television/henry-louis-gates-delves-history-celebrity-stories-finding-roots-article-1.1049078#ixzz1vKcAaeOQ
The IHM TImeline is interesting, as are their various congregational histories. The treatment of the (slightly) black foundress, Mother M. Theresa Maxis Duchemin, is a particularly heinous example of abuse by hierarchy.
http://www.ihmimmaculata.org/history/timeline.html
From that:
February 21, 2007
Today, Ash Wednesday, four Congregations, the Oblate Sisters of Providence (Baltimore) and the three IHM Sisters, Servants of the Immaculate Heart of Mary (Monroe, Scranton, Immaculata) issued a joint statement acknowledging racism in their history and pledging their commitment to address the sin of racism in the present.
“Do we lose anything when people ignore ethnic identity? Just askin’.”
I think people need some collective association on which to hang their hats. Hence, the emphases on family, community, ethnicity, political parties, social groups, religious association, etc. Just being a member of the human race sort of smacks of a bit too much “can’t we all just get along”-ness.
That sounds great on paper, but reality sets in and folks need manageable collections in/on which to focus part of their identity.
In sections of the Middle East, it seems that tribal identity reigns supreme, much more so than, say, nationalism. Kurds and Pashtuns are making the world less neatly categorizable than we Westerners would prefer. I think we’re quite a ways away from seeing each other only as human.
The notion that ideally we would all be mainly similar would impoverish the world. Different cultures have different strengths, and each can learn and adopt factors from the others. What I think is silly is being “proud” of our ethnic background. Gratitude is appropriate in some ways, but since we didn’t invent the good things in our background nor are we responsible for the bad stuff in it, i think that neither pride nor shame are appropriate feelings about our ethnicity.
At times, I think that Ann Olivier is an angelic being (i.e., not a human being). For example, she says, “i [sic] think that neither pride nor shame are appropriate feelings about our ethnicity.”
Ann Olivier to the contrary notwithstanding, I think that both pride and shame are appropriate feelings for us human beings to have about our ethnicity and our ethnic group, provided that we have both pride and shame, not one or the other to the exclusion of the other.
If we were to have only pride about our ethnicity, then our pride would be uncritical pride based on not taking the failings and shortcomings of our ethnic group into account.
But if we were to have only shame about our ethnicity, then our shame would not be balanced with seeing the good and positive aspects of our ethnic group.
“At times, I think that Ann Olivier is an angelic being.” Oh, I don’t think there’s any doubt of that. I am always better for reading her posts (and those of many others, which reminds me, where is Joe Petit these days??).
Thomas and Jean –
If you only knew! >:-)
I think it’s reasonable to be grateful for what we get from out ancestors. For instance, I’m very grateful to my French ones for their appreciation of all sorts of beauty, from the sensory to the spiritual, from wild Queen Anne’s lace, to delicious pate’, to Chartres Cathedral. And it’s reasonable to be proud of one’s own curent group. For instance, I’m very proud of what my city is doing about public education now, but ashamed of it in the past even though it tried to improve. But that’s really not the same thing as the feeling of — what? — when the Saints go to the playoffs :-) Can’t stand the word “togetherness”, but that’s really what it is. There is such a thing and it feels good.
When people of different ethnic groups marry it unifies the natural world and the spiritual one too if we let it. And that’s one of the things that pleases me most about the U. S. culture — as time goes on there are new unions, new sorts of identities. Sadly some things are lost, too, because there just isn’t time to remember everything. For instance, I didn’t bother to learn to make my grandmother’s Mardi Gras donuts, and those little things add up to a “form of life” as Wittgenstein calls them. Yes, they include the trivial, but the trivial in context isn’t always trivial. Complexity, complexity. Sigh. So there.
What I think is silly is being “proud” of our ethnic background.
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The first historians were genealogists: African griots who spent years memorizing lists of ancestors; Polynesian leaders who spent years learning to sing genealogical songs; Celtic druids who spent years learning family trees (and who seamlessly became the first bishops when Christianity replaced the old ways); etc. Were they silly?
Contempt for genealogy is not new, of course. There are people who boast of not reading the bible because of all the “begats”. (The word appears 225 times in the KJV.) The first chapter of Matthew’s gospel is the genealogy of Jesus. Silly?
Those who disparage people who are interested in genealogy reveal more about their own ignorance of history than about the flaws of those they presume to criticize. The impact of Alex Haley’s Roots, e.g., on black and white Americans was enormous, and now, with the ease of DNA testing and access to census data, African-Americans are able to find their way back to the country, tribe, sometimes even the village, from which their ancestors were kidnapped.
One of countless examples, Isaiah Washington:
http://www.reachonemillion.org/?p=118
“Today, however, Washington stands so proud of Africa that he recently became a citizen of Sierra Leone, making him a dual national of that West African country and his native United States. He was inducted as a chieftain in a Sierra Leonean village. He’s started a foundation to aid Sierra Leone, contributing nearly $1 million to build a school, restore a hospital and preserve a historic British slave castle on nearby Bunce Island.
“Washington’s long journey from ignorance about Africa to an impassioned embrace of it was accelerated by a 2005 DNA test that linked him to the Mende people of Sierra Leone. Now, he said, descendants of slaves like him can return to the motherland to help it prosper.”
Is he silly?
Is Queen Elizabeth silly for taking pride in her Georgian, Jewish, Swedish, Muslim, Irish, etc, etc. roots?
http://www.sabbathcovenant.com/doctrine/royal_bloodlines_run_deep.htm
Kings and queens have always employed genealogists, heralds, etc., to keep them informed about ancestors. Now ordinary people can find out about their forebears, too, and about the historical settings in which they lived. I think we owe a debt of gratitude to the Mormons who have made genealogical records available to all. And to companies like Family Tree for making DNA testing affordable. (It’s particularly fascinating when DNA findings support unprovable family tree information.)
(Reminder: Finding Your Roots with Henry Louis Gates, Jr., in on PBS tonight.)
Gerelyn ==
Maybe it’s because I know a lot about my roots that I think it’s silly to be proud of my ancestors accomplishments or feel guilty for their sins?
No, it’s not silly to want to know where and what and who you come from. One learns a lot about oneself from that, both good and ill. What is silly is to compliment oneself for whatever good an ancestor did.
Another reason not to take that stuff too seriously is that it can enforce a tribal outlook. The instinct to tribalism is strong, unfortunately. And when your ancestors were the ones with power it can reinforce the notion that we have a right to power, even powr over others, that others lack. Bad.
What is silly is to compliment oneself for whatever good an ancestor did.
Who does that?
Another reason not to take that stuff too seriously is that it can enforce a tribal outlook.
What “stuff”? Genealogy? We all came from tribes. Should we be kept in ignorance of our antecedents because of fear of “a tribal outlook”?
(A good starting point for those unafraid of “that stuff” is http://www.oxfordancestors.com/ , web site of Bryan Sykes, author of The Seven Daughters of Eve.)
The instinct to tribalism is strong, unfortunately. And when your ancestors were the ones with power it cainforce the notion that we have a right to power, even powr over others, that others lack. Bad.
How many parents did you have? Two? How many grandparents? Four? How many greatgrandparents? Eight? Keep multiplying. You’ll realize that by the year 1000, the number of your ancestors equals the world’s population. Some had power, most had no power. Your fears of becoming power crazed because you discover a queen or a chieftain in your ancestry are baseless. Just as you need not fear becoming a slave because you discover slaves on the family tree.
In Ursula LeGuin’s “The Lathe of Heaven” a man (happens to be white), whose dreams come true, is programmed to dream away racial distinctions as an evil. In this new landscape, he can no longer find his black girlfriend b/c a) everyone is a dull gray and b) he has dreamt away a good part of the milieu that made her who she was. She cannot exist in that world.
Doesn’t it seem, that when we think of race and ethnicity, we automatically think of strife and suffering, not the possibilities they open?
I just played this for my kid, and aside from not understanding the topical allusions, he does not understand why Gil Scott-Heron, R.I.P., was so agitated.:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rGaRtqrlGy8&feature=related
Maybe that’s good, maybe not.
Ethnic distinctiveness is not the problem, any more than it’s a problem to have broccoli and cauliflower sitting alongside each other in the produce department. The problem is in using it as a basis for willful misunderstanding, hatred, discrimination, and violence against the other group. But if we didn’t have them, we would probably just fight all the more with our brothers and sisters. Cain, meet Abel.
“Ethnic distinctiveness is not the problem, any more than it’s a problem to have broccoli and cauliflower sitting alongside each other in the produce department. The problem is in using it as a basis for willful misunderstanding, hatred, discrimination, and violence against the other group. But if we didn’t have them, we would probably just fight all the more with our brothers and sisters. Cain, meet Abel.”
I agree that ethnic distinctiveness is not the problem. But I think there is a kind of preservation instinct, which causes people to fear that which is different. “The other” threatens homogeneity–what is known and trusted–even in America where the descendants of the folks who wrote that “all men are created equal” invented laws to stem the Yellow Peril, all-Gentile country clubs, fences at the Rio Grande, Jim Crow, and No Irish Need Apply.
This fear isn’t fair, it’s often cruel. So we push “diversity.”
But, going back to Margaret’s original post, is our society really more diverse than it ever was? Or are we just makng up new categories of “non-whites” in order to make it LOOK like we’re more diverse?
I dunno, I’m flitting around this topic a lot, and I’m sorry for it, but there’s something in our newly invented embracing of diversity that strikes me as fake. If we really wanted diversity to be the norm, why would we be talking it up, having our DNA tested to prove we’re not as “white” as we look, all the while plannng to put up more fences across the Mexican border, requiring people to have ID cards to vote, and continuing to introduce legislation making English our “official” language?
having our DNA tested to prove we’re not as “white” as we look,
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Hard to believe anyone would have her/his DNA tested for that reason.
The people I know and know of who have had their DNA tested did so not to prove anything, but to learn about their deep roots. Sometimes there are pleasant surprises. A person who has always admired a certain people, culture, etc., e.g., may find to her/his delight that there are genetic reasons for that attraction.
(I hope no one will be discouraged from looking into his/her ancestry or having her/his DNA tested by the odd notions some have expressed here.)
(Family Finder http://www.familytreedna.com/family-finder-compare.aspx can “provide you a breakdown of your ethnic percentages and connect you with relatives descended from any of your ancestral lines within approximately the last 5 generations.”)
Family Finder!! $289!!! You can find out from census records for free. Or the Mormons…they have fantastic records–as we know!
Hi, Margaret! (I’m watching Henry Louis Gates’s show. Whoopsie. The “half-Apache” ancestor turns out to be white with pale eyes. LOL)
Census records have nothing to do with DNA testing.
As to free census records? Those of us lucky enough to live in cities with good libraries, Mormon centers, etc., can find lots of information for free. But even the best libraries don’t have the documents you can find at http://www.ancestry.com/ .
(First two weeks free. That’s long enough to get a good start on a family tree and become familiar with what’s available.)
But “as we know”, it’s a wise child who knows his own father. No matter what your family research turns up from census records, city directories, military records, old yearbooks, etc., etc., etc., you can never be sure that any of those people are really your relatives. Maybe you were adopted, and your parents didn’t tell you. Or maybe your grandfather was adopted, and he never told you. Etc.
DNA testing is different. A cousin found on Family Finder ($289) is really your cousin. And the ethnic percentages are real.
(And now this poor shlub turns out to be the descendant of a conquistador instead of a Apache.)
“A person who has always admired a certain people, culture, etc., e.g., may find to her/his delight that there are genetic reasons for that attraction.”
This starts to sound like Shirley MacLaine and her past lives territory. But, certainly, I wouldn’t want any of MY odd comments to prevent someone from shucking out $300 to find some genetic predisposition for their attractions.
(Yes, yes, I know, I’ve worn out my welcome. I’m going …)
Gerelyn –
I don’t think that finding the history of your family is silly. What is silly is doing genealogy in order to find distinguished relatives so you can imagine you are better than other people. Sure accomplished ancestors might increase the probability that you’re smart, but you already know that and of itself it doesn’t make you a better person.
Lots of people (I have known some) go into genealogy to document their illustrious family so they can claim an imagined superiority for themselves, but that’s an illusion.
Actually it could be fun to check out your DNA. I’d like to be Neanderthal. Totally, totally irrational. Guess I read too much Jean Auel. I know they were brutal and ugly, but I’m sure they thought they were courageous and beautiful.
By some accounts, Neanderthals were peaceful and unoffending folks, and consequently no match for their ferocious relatives, i.e., us. And I suppose ugly is in the eye of the beholder, too.
Sorry, can’t resist this: Once Gates’ guest finds out his relative is a white conquistador, he’s “a poor shlub.” I don’t want to make too much of this, but isn’t the implication that the guy’s family tree is somehow poorer for the fact that he does not have a non-white, i.e., Native American, ancestor?
I recommend June Cross’ documentary, “Secret Daughter,” whose search for her black father’s family was a fascinating riff on the meaning of family and race. http://www.secretdaughter.com/
I have an impression, based on the unassailable scientific evidence of (a) a very few people I happen to know and (b) the conversation going on here, that in American culture, more women than men have a passion for geneology. Let me put it as baldly as possible: is geneology a chick thing?
Hi, Jean:
The young man I was watching was Adrian Grenier. He told Gates that he calls himself a “Native American white boy”. (Indicating to me, at least, that he likes both sets of genes, the Asian and the European.)
Many of Gates’s guests are convinced they have Native American roots. Gates commented on that to Grenier. And he’s commented about it on other shows to the various African American guests who grew up hearing family legends about being part Cherokee, etc.
When Gates told Grenier that the ancestor he thought was Apache was not, I laughed. But then, as the show went on, (after I posted my comment to Margaret), it turned out that the conquistador married a Native American woman, so Adrian does have Native American roots after all. He was so happy.
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. . . but isn’t the implication that the guy’s family tree is somehow poorer for the fact that he does not have a non-white, i.e., Native American, ancestor?
That seems to be the point you’ve been trying to make all along, but I disagree. I don’t think people go into family research, stalk long-dead ancestors, because they want to be “non-white”. It’s about history. We know the year 850 happened, so where were our genes then, and what were they doing? What about 1174, 1582, 1776, 1920? It brings the historical context into sharp focus if we have the name of a real person who was in the middle of it.
(As to Shirley MacLaine? I thought she was great in Some Came Running, and I’ll be interested to see her on Downton Abbey.)
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Sure accomplished ancestors might increase the probability that you’re smart, but you already know that and of itself it doesn’t make you a better person.
Ann, maybe you’re confused about what genealogy and DNA testing can accomplish. They don’t provide I.Q. scores for ancestors or grade their goodness.
Lots of people (I have known some) go into genealogy to document their illustrious family so they can claim an imagined superiority for themselves, but that’s an illusion.
Should they be denied the opportunity to express their “gratitude” to ancestors like the “French ones for their appreciation of all sorts of beauty, from the sensory to the spiritual, from wild Queen Anne’s lace, to delicious pate’, to Chartres Cathedral”?
(You seem concerned that other people are susceptible to dangers that you’re able to surmount.)
Gerelyn –
You seem confused about what I”ve said. I don’t think DNA info, at least not at this point, will reveal I.Q. What *historical* knowledge can tell, however, is that particularly brainy ancestors have generally yielded brainy progeny. But so what?
I certainly don’t think anybody should be denied their genealogical research. I just think the motives of many who do it are silly.
Yes, I do think that there are some people who have shown themselves to be susceptible to some silly pursuits. That is not to say that I don’t have some silly goals of my own.
John Prior; “By some accounts, Neanderthals were peaceful and unoffending folks . .”
I have never really bought the claim that Neanderthals actually went extinct. A quick look around this nation and the world and one can see the physical traits, and I recently heard where those who study human development and genetics have decided they are not so sure Neanderthals did not mix with Homo sapiens:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/blog/2011/aug/25/neanderthal-denisovan-genes-human-immunity
http://news.discovery.com/human/genetics-neanderthal-110718.html
Ken –
Thanks. Fascinating. Nice to know that we Neanderthals were musical and artistic :-)