MoDo (hearts) Cuomo
The New York governor and flavor-of-the-day for Democrats in 2016 talks to Maureen Dowd. Andrew Cuomo has certainly been impressive in his first months as governor, and there is something appealing (to a wonk like me, I guess) about the possibility of a presidential matchup in 2016 with his trans-Hudson rival, New Jersey governor Chris Christie. Two Northeasterners, two Catholics, two governors — cool. (Well, one Northeasterner and one Mid-Atlantic-er, I guess.)
In light of the topic du jour, gay marriage and Cuomo’s successful shepherding of the issue through the state legislature and the resulting teeth-gnashing by the Catholic hierarchy, MoDo went straight to the religious stuff, and Cuomo’s responses seem likely to resonate with one segment of the Church while they will just as likely repel another segment:
“So, Governor,” I asked, “are you afraid you’re going to hell?”
Andrew Cuomo, inculcated at Immaculate Conception grade school, Archbishop Molloy High School and Fordham University, chuckled. “There are forms of hell, Maureen,” he answered. “The question is, which level?”
He’s his father’s son, all right.
“It’s troubling for me as a Catholic to be at odds with the church,” he began, before dissolving into a wry laugh. “Having said that, it seems that my entire political life, the tension with the church has come up again and again.”
Just as his father seized a social issue and established himself in opposition to the church with his Notre Dame speech on abortion, now the son has seized a social issue and established himself in opposition to the church with gay marriage.
Is it genetic, I wonder.
“I have a portrait of Saint Thomas More in my office,” the governor said, calling from the statehouse in Albany. It is a picture Mario Cuomo once kept in his office. He gave it to Andrew as a present when he graduated from Albany Law School, and the younger Cuomo has kept it with him for 30 years as he moved from job to job and city to city. “It’s not the first time there is a tension between the teachings of the church and the administration of the law, for my father and for myself.” Dryly, he adds: “I haven’t lost my head yet.”
Far from it. The New York governor says he still goes to church with his three teenage daughters. He received Communion at his Inaugural Day Mass, but mostly abstains. He has managed to stay on good terms with New York’s pugnacious archbishop, Timothy Dolan, who waged a relatively muted battle against gay marriage that Cuomo calls “reasonable.”
When I asked if the archbishop would preside over the ceremony if the governor decides to tie the knot with the Food Network glamour girl Sandra Lee, Cuomo says it couldn’t happen “because I’m divorced.”
Another keeper was his characterization of Ed Peters, a canon lawyer in Detroit and popular conservative Catholic blogger, who won some notoriety for arguing that Catholics should call Cuomo’s live-in girlfriend a “concubine,” because that is the correct descriptive term.
“He was a blogger, not from my state,” Cuomo said of Peters. “I didn’t want to give it too much credibility.”
As for whether Lee was hurt by the crude, archaic term, he conceded, “It was not a pleasant conversation for anyone.”
Peters is routinely described as a “Vatican adviser” because he is a consultor to a curial committee, and while that counts for something, even Peters has indicated that the characterizations indicate a level of Roman connectivity that may not reflect reality.
Read the rest here.
“I have a portrait of Saint Thomas More in my office…”
Too bad Gov. Cuomo does not seem to take to heart the lesson of Saint Thomas More’s resistance to state power.
“It’s not the first time there is a tension between the teachings of the church and the administration of the law…”
Cuomo seems to think he and St Thomas More are on the same side of this tension!?
A little dismissive to refer to Andrew Cuomo as the “flavor of the day” and gay marriage as the topic du jour?
I ♥ Andrew Cuomo, too.
A great column by Maureen.
“Just as his father seized a social issue and established himself in opposition to the church with his Notre Dame speech on abortion, now the son has seized a social issue and established himself in opposition to the church with gay marriage.”
Well at least Dowd accurately characterizes the elder Cuomo’s Notre Dame speech for what it is.
I should note the Gov. Cuomo is balancing New York’s budget by cutting spending and not raising taxes; perhaps he and Christie could be running mates.
Mario Cuomo was a fraud, arguing that he could not support anti-abortion legislation because it violated some supposed societal consensus, yet blocking death penalty legistlation backed by an overwhelming majority of New Yorkers. Mario Cuomo had no trouble imposing his personal beliefs on New Yorkers; he just didn’t agree with Church teaching on abortion.
So far, I like him :)
For a minute , after reading some of the initial comments, I thought I had logged into the America blogsite by mistake. Ah, well, with a little luck this too shall pass.
Not being in his jurisdiction nor his Facebook friend, I’m a little puzzled by his “I’m divorced” comment. In the normal course of things, it wouldn’t seem an insurmountable obstacle. Maybe he’s happy with his current arrangement and doesn’t want to rock the boat?
Maybe you should read the column, Jim P. It’s clear what he means.
—
Jimmy M.: Mine was one of the “initial comments”. Can you explain what you mean?
I continue to be discourgaed by the overreaching comments about complex and deicated people.
So George Weigel think Dowd is “anti-Catholic.” And Mario was “a fraud”
Easy for a Detroit Seminary canonist to shoot from his hip blog -we see how the Bishop there approached CAA.
So we have the usual deep divide about “by the book” as opposed to this should be where we’re going.
I can hear someone saying to this comment “dp you be;leive (whatever)?”
Instead of how to we want the Chutch to speak rationally to all its members in the public square with persuasiveness(if it’s posible to be persuasive?)
Instead of
Hi, Gerelyn, pretend I did read it but didn’t find it as clear as you did. What’s the answer?
Okay. Here’s what Maureen said:
When I asked if the archbishop would preside over the ceremony if the governor decides to tie the knot with the Food Network glamour girl Sandra Lee, Cuomo says it couldn’t happen “because I’m divorced.”
Here’s what you said:
In the normal course of things, it wouldn’t seem an insurmountable obstacle.
Here’s what I think:
The “pugnacious archbishop” would consider Andrew’s divorce an “insurmountable obstacle” to his officiating at a wedding.
Ok, thanks, Gerelyn. Here’s what I think: pursuing an annulment, assuming he hasn’t already done so and been denied, would be the indicated course – if he wants to marry her. I suspect the pugnacious (btw, I’m confused – is he pugnacious, jovial or loquacious? Can one be all three at once, or just one at a time, by turns?) archbishop would personally help him get the process started.
Maybe the idea of “pursuing an annulment” is repulsive to him, as it is to many/most honest people.
And maybe the honest archbishop would hesitate to “personally help him” pursue the “indicated course”, one that entails making false claims. Maybe he and the mother of his children WERE married. Maybe when they administered the sacrament to each another they were sincere, and the marriage really existed.
And maybe the “glamour girl” has an opinion, too. Maybe she’s happy with the arrangement they have, even if some regard her as a concubine. (Isn’t it funny how many disparaging words there are for women, and how few for men?)
Gerelyn, I must say I’m impressed that you could put a dang heart symbol into a comment. I can’t even put it in a post!
As far as annulments, it is often, as they say, complicated. For one thing, Cuomo’s bishop is actually Howard Hubbard of Albany, who gave him communion in his inaugural day mass (and Sandra Lee, who is also a divorced Catholic, I believe). I doubt that Dolan would create any problems if Cuomo were to pursue an annulment through the NY tribunal. That forum is rather sacrosanct, in my experience. Maybe he was denied one; maybe he believes his marriage to Kerry Kennedy was a true Catholic marriage that broke down, for whatever reasons. Kennedy is a practicing Catholic (author of a good book, “Being Catholic Now”) so they may both take the sacrament seriously enough not to pursue an annulment willy nilly. Or they don’t care. Or the tribunals are tightening up, as the Vatican would like them to.
Hard to say.
Gerelyn: the operative word was “some,” not all.
Hi, David. (To put a heart in your headline, copy one from your character map: Arial has one. Down at the bottom.)
Here’s a good background story (from Page Six Mag.) about the marriages of Sandy and Andrew. (I don’t think Sandy is Catholic, and I think Andrew was sincere when he married Kerry.)
http://www.nypost.com/pagesixmag/issues/20091203/Sandra+Lee+and+Andrew+Cuomo+Love+Story
“Here’s what I think: pursuing an annulment, assuming he hasn’t already done so and been denied, would be the indicated course –”
Ah, yes, Catholic divorce. That makes everything just hunky dory, doesn’t it?
There are days when the “nudge, nudge, wink, wink” of Catholicism is just a bit too much.
Just imagine a theology faculty comprised of some of our Democratic leaders – - truly a dream team:
Barack Obama on Niebuhr
Jerry Brown on Buddhism
Mario Cuomo on Teilhard de Chardin
Nancy Pelosi on St. Joseph the Worker
John Kerry on kerygmatic theology
Joe Biden on the obscurity of natural law
and newly recruited, Andrew Cuomo on Thomas More
We still have openings for experts on Karl Barth and Paul Tillich.
Is Andrew Cuomo a Catholic?
If he is divorced and living with his girlfriend and does not receive, he is not a Catholic, is he? He merely worships with Catholics like I do. So why hold him to whatever standards are expected of a Catholic politician?
Jean and all – David G says he’s Catholic, he seems to consider himself Catholic, and as far as I know, nobody whose opinion counts has decreed otherwise. He’s a Catholic. It seems he’s got a few things to clean up in his life, as do we all. The means are there, if he wishes to pursue them.
At any rate – unfortunately for David G’s dream match-up, there is a growing movement afoot to pull Gov. Christie forward into the 2012 race. Headline: “Christie Should Run, He May Never Be Hotter” http://www.realclearpolitics.com/2011/06/27/christie_should_run_he_may_never_be_hotter_258253.html
Btw, we may as well drop the other shoe: my seven-second perusal of Google convinces me that Gov. Christie’s pro-life credentials are WAY better than Gov. Cuomo’s.
I have to say it’s very difficult to take all these impassioned speeches by Cuomo et al about how important marriage is and how same-sex couples should be able to get married, and yet Cuomo lives with his girlfriend. Likewise, it’s hard to take Gingrich et al serious when they say how important it is not to let same-sex couples get married because marriage is so important and they are all divorced or adulterers or what not.
It’s like now that marriage is a joke, we can let the gays in on the joke too. I hope they make a run of it but I won’t hold my breath.
Jim P., saying you’re a Catholic and actually being one are not the same, are they?
Recently, I had to give my religious affiliation to a health care provider. I said I went to the Catholic Church but not to send anyone around with communion b/c I was not in a position to receive it and it would embarrass the extraordinary ministers. I said, however, that if I were in mortal danger, to please send a priest.
She muttered something under her breath and ticked “no religious affiliation” and told me to tell Raber or a nurse if I needed a priest.
How are Andrew Cuoma and I different?
Jean asked: “Jim P., saying you’re a Catholic and actually being one are not the same, are they?”
“When Pius X died, the conclave of 1914 elected Benedict XV, who immediately issued an encyclical (Ad Beatissimi Apostolorum – http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_Beatissimi_Apostolorum) calling on Catholics ‘to appease dissension and strife” so that “no one should consider himself entitled to affix on those who merely do not agree with his ideas the stigma of disloyalty to faith.’
‘There is no need of adding any qualifying terms to the profession of Catholicism,’ he concluded. ‘It is quite enough for each one to proclaim ‘Christian is my name and Catholic my surname’ “
David Gibson, “Who Is a Real Catholic?” The Washington Post, Sunday, May 17, 2009
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wpdyn/content/article/2009/05/15/AR2009051501390.html
Jean,
Catholics are still Catholic even when they’re excommunicated. One may be a “bad” Catholic and still be Catholic. You actually have to sign-out to officially leave the church.
Silvio Berlusconi enjoyed broad support from even the highest echelons of the hierarchy until just a few months ago. Why would they object to Andrew Cuomo’s personal life? Because he has only one concubine?
“Jim P., saying you’re a Catholic and actually being one are not the same, are they?”
Hi, Jean, I would say that if Gov. Cuomo has been initiated into the church – baptism, confirmation, Eucharist – he’s in, unless he formally decides otherwise.
I would say the same about you :-)
I would also say that all of us should do our best to live by the precepts of our faith. “Do our best” is hard to measure externally and objectively. For example, a person who is depressed may be doing all he can do just to roll out of bed in the morning and take a shower. And of course, conscience can complicate things tremendously. I expect that many, many Catholics, including Gov. Cuomo and those Catholic NY State Senators who gave speeches on the floor explaining their “yea” votes, sincerely disagree with what the church teaches about same sex marriage.
If I’ve ever given you, or anyone, the impression that I want to read them out of the church, I apologize. My whole ministry is to serve the church’s mission, which is to proclaim the Good News and welcome people *into* the church.
I have to say, I can easily see that “concubine” is offensive to women. To my mind anyway, it is redolent of the “kept woman” concept – that she is utterly dependent on the man, financially, psychologically and every other way. I confess I had never heard of Gov. Cuomo’s, er, girlfriend before and very seldom watch her network, but presumably stars of low-rated cable television network programs are paid as handsomely as the Governor of New York, or possibly much more. It seems perfectly possible to me that her career is “keeping” her family(?) in whatever style they’re accustomed to living.
We lack a word to describe the person with whom one lives who isn’t one’s spouse. “Girlfriend/boyfriend” should be jettisoned after 8th grade. “Partner” seems like a euphemism – as though the couple is putting forth the polite fiction that they’re roommates who are running a business together.
No, no, Jim, nothing you’ve ever said made me think you want to drum anyone out of the Church, and I always find what you say interesting and helpful.
But, while I’ve never “signed out” of Catholicism, I’ve clearly been “excommunicated” by the hospital clerk, and by the lady in the parish who sends around the birthday cards (Raber and The Boy get one, but I don’t). On the other hand, the parish ladies in charge of putting on funeral lunches still find me worthy enough to call on to provide covered dishes.
Jimmy Mac, thanks for that item by Benedict XV. Lovely idea that hasn’t seemed to work.
Jim, I have always found “lady friend” or “gentleman friend” useful terms. It does not presume a sexual relationship–I know many elderly folks who keep company or even live together platonically.
Speaking of concubines, historian Eamonn Duffy on priests, concubines and even St. Thomas More, all together on pp. 151-152 of his essay on scandal in the church:
http://books.google.com/books?id=3aWWI1EOo2cC&pg=PA151&lpg=PA151&dq=eamon+duffy+concubine&source=bl&ots=EgDIfiR62m&sig=ixlF9B7i064Luk53a_7QpUsL6JI&hl=en&ei=pH4MTseLOYK5twfmltiDDg&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=2&ved=0CB0Q6AEwAQ#v=onepage&q&f=false
The conclusion of his essay (not available online): “Earlier generations of Christians have understood more deeply and acknowledged more frankly that the treasure of the gospel is held in earthen vessels.”
Forget this fetishness about how Catholic he is, etc. From Reihan Salam’s blog:
“The irony of Cuomo as a progressive champion, though, is that until recently he was being praised most enthusiastically by conservatives. Liberals in New York were furious over his budget deal, which included property tax caps but cut funding for Medicaid and public education. Cuomo deserves credit even from liberals for taking on the prison guards’ union in the quest to close unneeded prison facilities. But overall, Democrats in Albany felt that he was too willing to slash public spending, rather than raise taxes, and until recently, the best place to find gushing praise for Cuomo was from conservative writers at National Review. …”
If this is progress, I say more of it!
The comedians are out in full force. I particularly liked:
“It’s like now that marriage is a joke, we can let the gays in on the joke too.”
Definitely worthy of Jay Leno!
“Silvio Berlusconi enjoyed broad support from even the highest echelons of the hierarchy until just a few months ago. Why would they object to Andrew Cuomo’s personal life? Because he has only one concubine?”
Ouch!
Anyway, I have often thought that MoDo is so popular mostly because she is so adept at being pretty much right where public sentiment will be 10 minutes from now.
Seriously, have you ever noticed that she seems to follow rather than set the tone? Her best columns are when she figures out how not to do that but they are few and far between.
Jean, regarding the church ladies: In my hierarchy of personal witness, attending and assisting at funerals is close to the top. Getting a birthday card only makes me wonder whether I should feel guiltier on behalf of the sender or the planet when I throw it away.
As I sit here in evacuated (for the most part) Los Alamos are, I see very clearly how easily folks frame things primarily through what they think is their insightful political ideology.
Great concern her eabout protecting and carrying on the mission – great concern in santa Fe about possible release of all kinds of stuff in the air and smoke.
But the political leadership here joined hands across party for what was important – public safety. Does it take a crisis for people to come togther???
Here again the comments are the usual political ideology kinds of stuff at times tinged (as Barbara well notes) with psuedocleverness.
The political battle over same sex unions is lost or being lost by Church leaders “defending” marriage.
Perhaps what they really need to defend is their own credibility.
Bob – please be safe. If they’re evacuating, get the heck out of there.
Jean–
Given Andrew Cuomo’s current living arrangements, I’d say he’s a semi (homemade)- Catholic.
;)
Jean, checking back in, I’d echo what Jim P and others said about being Catholic, namely that it’s awfully hard to “un-Catholic” oneself. It’s not like Facebook. If you have been confirmed, you’re in. You may not go to communion much or ever, but you’re still a member of the tribe. You’d have to formally apostasize, I think. There’s an argument to be made (and a pretty good one) that more of us (me included) should receive the Eucharist a bit less often, or at least with greater consciousness of the sacrament. Andrew Cuomo is a Catholic and identifies as one, so that’s sufficient. We can argue (and many will) about how “good” a Catholic he is and whether he ought to receive, but I’m impressed that he seems to take the issue seriously.
As for “concubine,” that’s one of those sneaky slanders legalists try to use to call a woman a bad name while using the fig leaf of clinical language and tradition.
Jeff Landry, I couldn’t agree more re Cuomo. In my adult life, Democrats and progressives have generally been much more fiscally prudent than Republicans, as well as savvy about economics. Clinton, Obama, now Cuomo and his ilk. A lot better than Reagan and Bush II.
Heck, it just gets better with the Gov! Now he’s challenging the hydraulic fracturing ban!
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/07/01/nyregion/cuomo-will-seek-to-lift-drilling-ban.html?_r=1&hp&gwh=D32F5B25F44C332093529B653CA451F5
@David Gibson – if capping taxes and cutting spending is what it takes and bucking unions is what it takes, I don’t care what label you go by!
David G., yeah, I realize that once you’ve been confirmed you’re expected to live like a Catholic, and even try to get back in if you’ve been ousted from the communion line.
But away with the fetishness of what it means to be Catholic and back to Jeff’s love-in with Gov. Cuomo.
Bob Nunz, please check in and let us know you are OK.
OK!
If one tries to think about being Catholic by canon lawtabdaeds, the idea is pretty rigid.
But canon law has lost mucho credibility.
All the blather aside, it seems the much-malighned Bishop Dolan is not the only man on the East Coast who does not approve of same-sex marriage:
http://www.catholic.org/national/national_story.php?id=41956
Bob Nunz –
Are you safe? Do evacuate if there is danger!! Grab your family pictures, fill up the tank, and go.
@Ann Olivier, I think Bob Nunz just means that funding for the national lab in Los Alamos, which is really the town’s reason for existing, has been dramatically reduced in recent years, and most people have moved away.
Oops, I was wrong. It looks like another fire is headed for LA after all.
Bob Nunz, I would definitely consider leaving if I were you. Look up at the ridge to the west of town where the trees got fried last time and play it safe. Juniper burns fast.
“I realize that once you’ve been confirmed you’re expected to live like a Catholic,”
Heck, I thought it was the signal that you can fuggedabout all this Catholic stuff now and stop going to church.
Someone had better tell all those kids to do exactly this that that’s not what it’s all about.
Jimmy, yeah, well, there’s a difference between the kiddies who have confirmation thrust upon them and adults like me who actually seek out that burden. Or maybe not. I’ve been trying to figure out a way to weasel out of being Catholic for several years, but it seems that even when Church teaching finds you beyond the pale, it’s still hard for you to reject the Church and its teachings.
Jean, go easy. I suspect the Church is a lot larger than you think. Not sure of that – just a wild guess.
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