Dissident Paki(stani) voice(s)
What are dissident voices saying to the military and the government in Pakistan? Here’s one “Sulks and Self-Delusion” published in the English language version of Dawn. Not exactly Glenn Greenwald, but asking some good questions.
“LOST in the strident blame game between Islamabad and Washington in the aftermath of the raid that killed Osama bin Laden in Abbottabad is any clarity about the basis of their relationship. While conspiracy theories and accusations are being hurled back and forth, nobody`s asking: what next? This confusion is more pronounced in Pakistan where a humiliated high command is issuing angry statements to little purpose. One example of its fury emerged when Maj-Gen John Campbell, US commander of forces in eastern Afghanistan, said that for two days, he could get no response at all from his Pakistani counterpart.”
And the link to Dawn for those keeping abreast.
UPDATE: Apropos of Syria’s strategy discussed below, there is this from Anthony Shadid of the NYTimes on yesterday’s Israel-Syria border incidents. And here is Juan Cole on the range of incidents that accompanied the Palestinian observance of Nakba, “The Arab Spring Comes to Israel” (Warning: not for the closed minded; may bring on apoplexy).
Are you sure you should be using the word “Paki” on dotCommonweal?
I think it’s basically OK in America, but there are parts of the world where it’s kind of offensive.
Hi, Felapton.
I was kind of surprised to see the word, too.
Didn’t know that. What exactly is the offense?
It’s considered an ethnic slur, especially in the UK.
(Sorry, hit submit too soon)
The term gets used as a catch-all term of derision for South Asians or Middle Eastern folks, a lazy “they’re those brown ones” term. It’s not that it’s a shorthand for Pakistani.
I thought it was a legit term, too, until Prince Harry (the same kid seen in his teen years at a Halloween party in an SS uniform) used it recently and got in trouble with the British press.
He also reputedly got in trouble with Grandmum for putting a message on the palace VM imitating her voice and saying she was unavailable to talk b/c she was “on the throne.”
But, then, when people have been seriously inbred and have too much time on their hands, these things happen. What stymies me is that the British nations continue to provide him with too much money to boot.
Hi, Jean.
Harry is adorable. I got a catalogue from the Canadian mint yesterday with his lovely punim sooo distorted on a coin. Terrible. And Kate with a lantern jaw. And Charles looking like G. W. Bush.
I think he should be forgiven for the SS uniform. Those too young to remember are bound to forget.
You Anglo-philes; don’t forget that many of the sub-continent problems are due to that very same monarchy and its Empire. The young’uns should go out and get a real job like everyone else.
The young ones have jobs. William is back at work already. Harry is a captain in the Army.
Those who should go out and get real jobs, imho, are priests. Let them work at a trade or a profession. Get married and raise families. Wear ordinary clothes. Call no man father, we’re told, but for some reason, that rule is ignored. No more tax exemptions for religion. Wouldn’t that solve a lot of problems? Isn’t the C Street scandal amusing? Why does the House of Representatives need a chaplain? What does s/he do all day? And if a chaplain is necessary, why not a Hopi medicine woman?
And blaming the “sub-continent problems” on others? Their cultures are waaaay older than ours. They’ve had thousands of years to learn to build houses, but look at the dump/mansion bin Laden was in. Etc.
The town, Abbotobad, was named for a British officer who established it as a summer redoubt for his fellow Englishpersons. His name was Abbot. You’re kidding me about the “others” having no responsibility: the Brits (is that word okay?) announced the establishment of Pakistan, divided it from India, and left the two to sort out the mess, which they haven’t succeeded in doing yet. If Pakistan is a failed state, the Brits are 50 percent responsible for the colonial mess they left.
Glad to see that the information in “dawn.com” was so compelling that the conversation about it has been swirling here ever since …..
And here I thought Dawn was everyone’s fave dishwashing liquid.
Okay.. Here’s a test. How many went to look at the story sighted? How many looked at Dawn? And not the one under your kitchen sink!
I say et sic et non.
On the one hand, it is good sportsmanship to avoid giving offense to people who have enough awful problems already. When one is genuinely confident in the superiority of one’s own way of doing something, it is good policy to make it it as easy as possible for other people to adopt it.
On the other hand, there is no need to go overboard. If you pretend you think the other people’s way of doing things is just as good as your own, they may actually be convinced to keep doing it that way.
For example, long ago, my ancestors lived in Mexico. A few years ago, Pope B. got some people annoyed by mentioning how fortunate the New World was that the conquistadores brought Christianity over. That was not a very politic thing to say, but everybody who knows anything about the old Mayan and Aztec deities can agree we’re well rid of them. On the other hand, it is well known not every conquistador always behaved exactly like St. Martin de Porres.
Hi, Margaret. I saw a charming little story about Abbot. Forget all the details, but one was that he spent all his money to build the place. A shame it was undeveloped for thousands of generations before someone with a little energy came along and built it. And isn’t it funny that someone said “it’s the closest thing to England”? How they yearn for England’s green and pleasant land.
Absolving people of other skin tones of responsibility for themselves is itself is a form of colonialism.
———-
Hi, Jimmy. I clicked on Dawn. Very interesting. The recipe for Turin fried eggs with truffles looks good.
I went to the site and skimmed the article. Why? What do I not know about Dawn that Jimmy finds so shocking?
The term Paki is used very derogatorily by folks from India who suffered quite a bit when the line of control was established.
Despite occasional outreaches, feelings between the two nations run deep .
BTW, not sure all native peopels would agree we’re “well rid” of Aztecs and Incas.
Still quite bit of the old colonial spirot around????
Do we think referring to the troubles as the Af-Pak war is insulting (just checking )?
Not really
I know nothing about the Pakistani press, but I’m told (was it NPR? the BBC?) that it is the English-language press (like Dawn) that raises questions about Osama being able to hide in a military town, while the rest of the press ignores that awkward question, and concentrates on an American violation of national sovereignty. As, it seems, the Pakistani Parliament ignored that question when it grilled the military and the ISI the other day.
Is that true? Unfortunately, my Urdu is as good as it ever ways, which means non-existent.
Consulting the English-language press of another non-English speaking country is always risky in the sense that it is unrepresentative. Haaretz in Israel is another example. I do think both papers print an national language edition of their papers, so perhaps what we English-only readers get is more or less what their native-language readers get. Of course, it’s always possible that they’re all funded by the CIA!!! In the case of Pakistan, I have the impression there are many English-language speakers who are likely also those who have had a secondary school education, where the British system lives on.
Is it possible that the Parlimentary debate ended in support for national sovereignty because how else could it end? Apparently this was one of the first times that the military and ISI have had to show up and explain themselves. I think there are many more fissures than we non-Urdu speakers are ever going to find out about.
This from Juan Cole on the parliamentary debate in Pakistan: “In an unprecedented move, the Pakistani military allowed itself to be grilled by the civilian parliamentarians. Gen. Shuja Pasha, the current head of Inter-Services Intelligence, took responsibility for two major intelligence errors– failing to find Bin Laden even though he was in Abbotabad near the military academy, and failing to detect US helicopters coming into the country to carry out the mission against Bin Laden. Gen Pasha even offered to resign if the parliament asked that of him. Accountability and contrition and willingness to step down are not generally attributes of the Pakistani officer corps.”
http://www.juancole.com/2011/05/pakistani-parliament-reacts-against-us-incursions.html
Two superb op-eds in the NYT Week in Review today -Friedman of Holbrooke on the Pakistan question -quite relevant to this discussion; and Kristoff on the Middle East and its dynamic -all of which plays into how we look at the picture.
Thanks Bob:
Kristoff on Holbrooke: http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/15/opinion/15kristof.html?hp
Friedman on ME, Egypt in particular: http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/15/opinion/15friedman.html?hp
“Okay.. Here’s a test. How many went to look at the story sighted? How many looked at Dawn? And not the one under your kitchen sink!”
I did ‘Ster, I did !!!!!!
Yes, read the posts, Margaret. Thanks to everyone for the links.
Michigan’s Own Mike Rogers was on “60 Minutes” tonight with the brilliant assessment that the Pakistanis are not really our allies. I guess that’s why he’s on the Intelligence Committee.
Anyhoo, nobody offered any good reasons why we continue to dump a lot of money over there. Someone on NPR last week–a former ambassador, I forget who b/c I was driving in heavy traffic at the time–made some sense in arguing that it’s time to sit down with Pakistan and negotiate a new relationship now that OBL is out of the way. He argued that the social and political landscape in Pakistan has changed enough to warrant a rethinking of our mutual goals, if any.
Bob, I think Felapton was talking about Mayan and Aztec deities that demanded human sacrifice, not the people themselves. And, of course, you could argue that the conquistadores demanded human sacrifices to their god of money. But let’s not bicker and argue about who killed who, to quote Monty Python’s “Holy Grail.”
And here’s John Kerry, per AP report, set to visit Pakistan, speaking softly but carrying a big stick:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110516/ap_on_re_as/as_pakistan_bin_laden